[unruhjonny]

I am curious if any of you more seasoned and wisened enthusiast might know this;

How often were '70 Formulas (or 71-72 Formulas for that matter) ordered without power steering or power brakes?

This car just came to my inbox (I get Hemmings alerts):

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds...1ac156ef962ef0

Obviously these sellers don't have their facts straight, because they are calling it a "Ram Air 1";
But, I am wondering if it might be a legit L74(RAIII) car because of:
1) lack of firewall mounted vacuum reservoir
2) lack of PB & PS

The latter I have understood was rather common to be absent on GTO's ect which were ordered to go fast at the expense of amenities.
It's a neat car, but no mention of PHS, engine code, gearing, open or posi, or transmission type (I'm guessing it's an M20 car).

If this is an L74, then it's one of either 1,637 (M20) or 458 (M21).

[Formulabruce]

I had a 71 Formula 400 with deluxe interior, no power Anything. So it did Not get a Formula steering wheel. It was ordered in New York.

[keith k]

Originally Posted by unruhjonny

If this is an L74, then it's one of either 1,637 (M20) or 458 (M21).

A total of 689 L74 Ram Air III Formulas were made, according to the published figures I've seen (your numbers appear to be for the standard 400).

And yeah... any seller claiming a car is a factory Ram Air car should post up some evidence to prove it. When they don't, it's usually because it isn't.

I did notice that the display sign that's stacked in the trunk says "1 of 189". 189 is the number of RAIII / M21 Formulas made. So who knows.

Not many options on this one (beyond trans and possibly engine): rally gauges with clock, radio, and the somewhat uncommonly ordered vinyl top.

[70TA-RAIII]

Looks like 12 heads and WS engine stamp. Lots more pictures on their website.

John

[eaglesan13]

I've seen a bunch of 70 Formulas with manual brakes, but only a few with manual steering.

It looks like it has a four core radiator in it. I wonder if it's a performance axle car. Maybe it's a real RA III, M21, 3.73 car. That might explain the manual steering and brakes.

[unruhjonny]

thanks Keith for catching my number blunder;
I didn’t notice another link… I’ll look again.

['ol Pinion head]

Since the mid 80's have ran across half a dozen plus '70 Formulas w manual steering & man disc. The manual steering pitman arm is a bear to find. Agree with Chris, manual disc was quite common on '70 Formulas. This blue '70 comes across to me the result of a wily dealer paying attention to the total vehicle cost, in an effort to slot a fairly affordable RA3 stick Formula, i.e, the $$$ saved by not adding the power accessories went a ways towards offsetting the cost of the RA engine. Would be interesting to see a PHS invoice, see what wheels that '70 received...

Always keeping eyes open for '71-72 Pontiac manual steering builds. Most 71+ Pontiacs I've sourced man steering pieces from have been from A bodies, but have ran across three factory manual steering '71 Formulas, w 2 of them originally built as stripper HO cars /raced since new.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

The posted link pics show the #12 heads , WS block , and big manifolds , and an original RA breather .
But I think the car is more possibly a fantasy car with good parts.

Ransom or John might can data crunch the EUN = 0558437 might be close.
Built 05B
Heads are January 70
Intake looks like I - Sept 70 or L - Dec 70 ,,,, would be for 71 if either of those are right

The display sign smells pretty bad
1 of 4 registered in USA ........ and etc

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Have mentioned a really oddball local car on here before a guy is working on.
70 Formula WT M13 Air Cond. manual steer and manual discs
Tinted Windshield , Console , AM Radio , 14" R2
Lucy with Std Blue
All original drivetrain with open face Alt and 263 carb intact
Original air cleaner MIA

Sold new at Boomershine in Atlanta GA

1 of 1 registered in USA

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

For comparison
The 70 TA Blue Auto AC with numbers block that just ended on BaT

04D Built
EUN = 0503696

It also had wacky head dates though
J179 heads
B240 intake

The EUN's and Build dates look to be within scope on the 2 cars
Formula has a chance of being legit
05B
EUN = 0558437
Seems like someone who went to the effort of making that display sign would have had the PHS though.

Most 70 Ram3 engines that I have witnessed that were truly 1-piece had fairly tight to really tight date codes on the cast iron parts.

[unruhjonny]

ok;
Incase anyone wants to fast forward and view additional images of this car, HERE is the link.

[poncho-mike]

As many have noted, it is not that unusual to find an early Formula with manual disc brakes. My 1970 Formula was a 3-option car (it had poverty caps). A friend had a more optioned 1971 Formula 400, which came manual disc brakes.

I have only seen three early Formulas with manual steering. All were 1970 model Formulas, one was a silver 4-spd with base 400, another was a white automatic with base 400, and the last was a white 3-spd Ram III car.

[Held for Ransom]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

The posted link pics show the #12 heads , WS block , and big manifolds , and an original RA breather .
But I think the car is more possibly a fantasy car with good parts.

Ransom or John might can data crunch the EUN = 0558437 might be close.
Built 05B
Heads are January 70
Intake looks like I - Sept 70 or L - Dec 70 ,,,, would be for 71 if either of those are right

The display sign smells pretty bad
1 of 4 registered in USA ........ and etc

0558437 is spot on for a WS/YZ engine in an 05B car.
Intake looks like an D220. Heads may not match date-wise.

https://www.gatewayclassiccars.com/v...ntiac-firebird

[keith k]

Ah, thanks for the link to more pics. Definitely a legit RA III car. And probably an M21 / 3.73 one. Sure would be nice to see a PHS for it, and a few more pics of key codes like for the carb, trans, and axle. It's obviously been painted, but otherwise looks pretty untouched outside of the aftermarket radio, Cragars, and missing tailpipe tips. Looks like some rust hiding under the vinyl top at the left side of the back window, but overall a super solid car. There aren't many this original still around.

Selling dealer seems somewhat clueless as to what they have, which makes me wonder if their acquisition might have been an estate situation.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

The short throw shifter upgrade leaned me to thinking it was a conversion from 3spd base car.

It was peculiar that there was a dedicated photo of the area where the firewall vacuum pod would be on a standard 400.
Like someone knew the ropes , and where to bend to deceive.

Is that hood a later "braced hood" like has been discussed ?

Would be a pretty fair deal today in that condition if its the real deal , especially if carb and distributor are still with it too.

[keith k]

Good eye - it is a post-70 hood with the braces.