[shawn e.]

My mom found these at a garage sale.

[shawn e.]

More

[Greg Reid]

That's very interesting. Using the page below, how does that work?

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Greg Reid

That's very interesting. Using the page below, how does that work?

The shop would go across the top line to match up to whatever they charged for an hourly rate, then down to figure out how much to charge. For instance, if their rate was $4.00/hour and a job took 1.4 hours, the labor would be $5.60.

I have a copy of that 1961-1962 manual, as well as one just for 1961. Also, a 1961 used car appearance reconditioning manual. They aren't very useful but they are neat memorabilia.

[67GTONUT]

Thats awesome....

Those Labor rates are funny...... man, we have come a long way......

[mgarblik]

That's great stuff. I have a bunch of Motor and Chilton Flat rate books from that time period but not a factory time manual. There were a bunch of .1 labor operations in the auto trans areas in the pics. That's 6 minutes!. Can you imagine doing a bunch of .1 and .2 labor operations? Yet mechanics made good money if they did quality work quickly. The first 2 dealerships I worked at had the lead mechanics earning a 50-50 split with the shop on labor rate. In today's shops, a top technician would be very lucky to earn a 30-70 split. Times have certainly changed in the repair business. Your mom has a good eye for cool old car things!

[400 4spd.]

Greg, if I understand your question correctly here is how it works. Job operations are priced on the tenth of an hour's time, which equals 6 minutes. 3 tenths (.3) = 18 minutes.
If the total time of a job ends up computing to 3.2 (three hours and two tenths), the charge is based on the billable labor time (3.2) multiplied by the labor rate ($). So with a ten dollar labor rate, the charge would be $32.00.

[Greg Reid]

Ok, it makes sense now. The labor rates per hour are unimaginable in today's world.
Now that y'all have cleared that up for me..How about explaining the pic below.

[Stuart]

Use the numbers in the top left corner as an example. 11-306 refers to a line number in the flat rate manual for replacing the headlight door. In the 1961-1962 manual that's 0.2 hours or 12 minutes. 2.728 refers to the group number for the headlight door in the parts manual, so they know where to look for it when ordering a new one.

[Greg Reid]

Thanks. More useless knowledge!

[Sirrotica]

Brings back a lot of old memories, not good ones either.

GM Flat Rate manual: The crystal ball for the mechanic to find out how badly he's going to be screwed, in advance.

Also gives you advance planning on telling your wife not to spend too much at the grocery store a week in advance. You can also tell your kids, "No, you're not going to be able to have the latest toy you saw on Saturday morning TV".

Plus you know how much side work you can plan at doing at home, to make up for the 40 hour work week that only paid you 32 hours, and you worked for GM, and the owner of the dealership one whole day for free!!!! The final insult is it's completely legal for them to pay you like this, and if the service manager doesn't particularly like you he can starve you and you have to grin and bear it ………...

My father was right, (of course I was young, and smarter than he was) "Find a better profession, other than being a mechanic." Of course being smarter than he was, I didn't listen.

[shawn e.]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

Brings back a lot of old memories, not good ones either.

GM Flat Rate manual: The crystal ball for the mechanic to find out how badly he's going to be screwed, in advance.

Also gives you advance planning on telling your wife not to spend too much at the grocery store a week in advance. You can also tell your kids, "No, you're not going to be able to have the latest toy you saw on Saturday morning TV".

Plus you know how much side work you can plan at doing at home, to make up for the 40 hour work week that only paid you 32 hours, and you worked for GM, and the owner of the dealership one whole day for free!!!! The final insult is it's completely legal for them to pay you like this, and if the service manager doesn't particularly like you he can starve you and you have to grin and bear it ………...

My father was right, (of course I was young, and smarter than he was) "Find a better profession, other than being a mechanic." Of course being smarter than he was, I didn't listen.

So this is pay rate not charge rate? That is nuts!

[Stuart]

No, it's a flat rate manual - it's what they charged for a particular repair. Don't forget this was over 50 years ago, so while the rates seem low everything else cost less money too.

[Sirrotica]

It's actually both, the flat rate manual is used to quote a customer the labor before hand. When the service manager writes up the work order he writes the flat rate time quoted on the order and when he pulls it in your stall the order is usually under the windshield wiper with the work that he sold to the customer all listed.

After you finish the work you flag your time on the back of the hard copy by using a sticker with your pay number and the time you're entitled to per the flat rate manual. There are 2 layers on your time card the top layer is what you tear off and affix to the back of the work order and then there is carbon that transfers your writing to you hard copy of your time card. At the end of the day you can add up the labor on your hard copy and see how many hours you got paid for, usually it is less than eight...……

I always got a kick out of people that bitch about how much labor they were charged at a garage, they actually thought the mechanic made that much....LOL, as Mike has eluded to you're lucky to make 30% of the labor charged to the customer and usually the flat rate is less hours than the job actually takes.

Anyone that has heard of short cuts to save time doing a particular job on a car, most of the time saving ideas came from mechanics working flat rate, believe me. Anyone can short cut labor while doing the job, the deal is that if the job comes back, and you have to do it over, you're working off the clock for free. As Mike eluded to you have to be fast, and precise to get by on flat rate, the "Comeback" is what will kill your paycheck really fast. A service manager that has a beef with you can kill your paycheck too. If they give you warranty work constantly, GM has cut the labor on warranty work to 50 to 70% of what customers pay is, and there is a separate flat rate book for warranty work which hardly anyone can beat.

I don't care who you are, or how fast you are. This is a warranty flat rate which I recall because it was so low. R&R a transmission in a RWD GM car and overhaul, 2.3 hours. GM claimed they did a time study on a female tech and she was able to beat the time, we all wanted to see a video of that, but GM says it's true and there's no way to challenge the times.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

Mike has eluded to you're lucky to make 30% of the labor charged to the customer

That's a problem with many occupations - people don't realize 1) how much it costs to have work done by someone else, whether it's on their car or house or whatever, and 2) when they do find out, they don't understand that's what the company is charging. They assume that's what the guy who's actually doing the work is putting in his pocket. 30% is pretty typical for many occupations, it's the about same for me as an engineer.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Flat Rate Commission for most mechanical auto techs is like working in a whore house.
You get screwed all day long
Then screwed on your pay

Its only gotten worse and worse over the decades.

The hours charged by flat-rate schedules work in favor of the consumer.
Not a terribly bad idea , in all fairness. In most cases.

In general , after you have performed that operation 4-5-10 times , you can match or maybe even beat the time allotment.
The first few times , you lose time.

Not so bad if you work on the same type cars day in and day out.
You get the handle on it - in most cases.
That is the design behind flat-rate manuals.

A multi-make dealer , or independent shop , you lose on about everything you touch.

Over the years as labor rate goes up , they reduce the techs percentage.
It keeps them at about the same annual salary as 20-30 years ago.
Even though the labor rate has doubled and tripled since then.
That is the whole problem. Greed of the Pimps

Body Shop business is very similar - but not as totally extreme overall .

Here is a typical scenario :
Go to Service Director desk for next job assignment.
By the time he leisurely has your input assigned and logged on the job, you go search/find the car outside and get it inside to your bay , about the 15 minute mark.

It's a 0.8 hour job assignment.

You go to the parts counter and they leisurely fill your request and make the necessary input into system, and hand you the part(s). Return to your bay,
about 25 minute mark.

The repair takes an hour.
1 hr 25 minute mark

Return car outside, return keys to Director and he leisurely inputs your 0.8 into system and hand writes the data onto your flag sheet.
1 hour 35 minute mark

You just got paid for 48 minutes of labor.
It only took you 95 minutes to earn it.

The company charged $96 labor @ $120 Hour
The tech draws $32 before taxes

Next job is 0.6 to replace exterior rearview mirror
It should have went to the Body Shop , but they are covered up and it would take a week to get it back out to customer. So you get the job instead.

Another 20-25 minute mark later - the car is in your bay and you are at Parts Counter being handed the box (mirror)

oops - it came in the wrong color.

Mirror to Body Shop - Car back outside - Keys back to Director.
35 minute mark = 0 paid labor accomplished
Its going to pay 36 minutes - after you get notified by Body Shop its ready.
{1 or 2 days later}

Get keys again, grab car and go to body shop, get mirror, drive to bay,
remove door panel and install mirror. 60 minutes + previous 35 minutes

Return car outside , keys back to director, flagged time.
Another 10 minutes.

105 minutes total input
36 minutes paid {0.6}

Next job is road test for funny noise at right front wheel -
you can't duplicate noise even after 20 minutes driving
the Beat Goes On

I've never employed as a mechanical tech at a dealership
But know/knew many who did while i was employed at dealership body shops.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Flat Rate Commission for most mechanical auto techs is like working in a whore house.
You get screwed all day long
Then screwed on your pay

Its only gotten worse and worse over the decades.

The hours charged by flat-rate schedules work in favor of the consumer.
Not a terribly bad idea , in all fairness. In most cases.

In general , after you have performed that operation 4-5-10 times , you can match or maybe even beat the time allotment.
The first few times , you lose time.

Not so bad if you work on the same type cars day in and day out.
You get the handle on it - in most cases.
That is the design behind flat-rate manuals.

A multi-make dealer , or independent shop , you lose on about everything you touch.

Over the years as labor rate goes up , they reduce the techs percentage.
It keeps them at about the same annual salary as 20-30 years ago.
Even though the labor rate has doubled and tripled since then.
That is the whole problem. Greed of the Pimps

Body Shop business is very similar - but not as totally extreme overall .

Here is a typical scenario :
Go to Service Director desk for next job assignment.
By the time he leisurely has your input assigned and logged on the job, you go search/find the car outside and get it inside to your bay , about the 15 minute mark.

It's a 0.8 hour job assignment.

You go to the parts counter and they leisurely fill your request and make the necessary input into system, and hand you the part(s). Return to your bay,
about 25 minute mark.

The repair takes an hour.
1 hr 25 minute mark

Return car outside, return keys to Director and he leisurely inputs your 0.8 into system and hand writes the data onto your flag sheet.
1 hour 35 minute mark

You just got paid for 48 minutes of labor.
It only took you 95 minutes to earn it.

The company charged $96 labor @ $120 Hour
The tech draws $32 before taxes

Next job is 0.6 to replace exterior rearview mirror
It should have went to the Body Shop , but they are covered up and it would take a week to get it back out to customer. So you get the job instead.

Another 20-25 minute mark later - the car is in your bay and you are at Parts Counter being handed the box (mirror)

oops - it came in the wrong color.

Mirror to Body Shop - Car back outside - Keys back to Director.
35 minute mark = 0 paid labor accomplished
Its going to pay 36 minutes - after you get notified by Body Shop its ready.
{1 or 2 days later}

Get keys again, grab car and go to body shop, get mirror, drive to bay,
remove door panel and install mirror. 60 minutes + previous 35 minutes

Return car outside , keys back to director, flagged time.
Another 10 minutes.

105 minutes total input
36 minutes paid {0.6}

Next job is road test for funny noise at right front wheel -
you can't duplicate noise even after 20 minutes driving
the Beat Goes On

I've never employed as a mechanical tech at a dealership
But know/knew many who did while i was employed at dealership body shops.

You left out the part where you get to go home and work on side jobs in the evening and weekends so in effect you work two jobs to earn a decent wage that someone else earns at one...………..

I got into a disagreement about flat rate with a brand new service manager about a used car that the dealership sold, and ended up with an oiling problem. No oil to the valvetrain but the crank did have oil, ended up a blockage in an oil galley internally in the block (There is no flat rate for what I ended up doing). I flagged 24 hours on a car I actually worked 40 hours on. The new guy comes over to me and says he can't justify the time I flagged, and I need to write a minus ticket for 6 hours on it, bringing my 40 hour investment down to 18 hours. Less than half a weeks pay for a 40 hour week!!

I said I refused to take a beating of another 6 hours for the used car department. He says he's going to talk to the owner upstairs. He comes back and tells me he has good news and bad news. "We're going to pay you the 24 hours, and you can load your tools up and leave". I asked him "What's the bad news?"...………..
They did end up screwing me out of 2 weeks of vacation time too...……... But I also filed for unemployment and they lost their appeal...……..LOL

One of the best things that could have happened at the time, I started working full time for myself and actually worked less and made more money...…………….