[grivera]

Hoping someone can decipher the trim tag on my newly acquired 69 Lemans. I haven’t checked the VIN on the 350 engine yet but the XS code matches the year of car as do the 47 heads. Below are pics of the trim tag and VIN.

[thepontiacman]

Here you go.

Sent from my Moto Z3 Play using Tapatalk


553832 body/sequence

[grivera]

Thank you! I’ve since gotten the PHS which matches above - it’s a factory no AC car. The engine has the last six of VIN next to timing cover so happy about that. Not sure if the trans yet - it’s a TH400 with the following on the tag PV-69-44462. PHS says Turbo Hydramatic 351. The last six of VIN are 145519 but not sure where I find them.

[limejudge69]

Its on a pad above the pan rail near the kickdown switch

[north]

If the car is non AC with a 350 2bbl then the th400 trans is incorrect. The only use of the TH400 on 69 LeMans was with the 350 HO (this was the only auto trans offered with this engine) or with a 350 2bbl with AC (you could also order a 2 speed automatic with this engine- with or without AC). a 350 2bbl without AC was offered with either a TH350 or the 2 speed automatic. easiest way to discern between a TH400 and TH350 without climbing under the car is the kickdown switch. TH400 has the switch mounted to the gas pedal bracket while the TH350 uses a cable from the throttle intake bracket on the engine to the transmission.

[grivera]

I was under the impression the 351 trans code (see PHS doc) meant TH400 based on the post below…does it simply mean Turbo Hydramatic and would be either 350 or 400 depending on specific application? My 69 bird original 400/400 car has same code.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...80&postcount=7

[johnta1]

I'm pretty sure the TH400 was coded 354?
351 was for the TH350.
(I'd have to look through my data to know for sure)

[north]

354 is M20 4 speed, 351 is TH400, 359 is TH350. PHS probably just made a mistake trying to read a degraded microfiche..

As an aside it gets a bid strange with the TH400 on 350 firebirds and Tempest-LeMans. When you ordered a three speed automatic with the 350 HO you had to order the 351 TH400 and they charged you the normal $227.04 but when you ordered a three speed automatic with a 350 2bbl you had to order the 359 TH350 and they charged you the normal $205.92. However if you didn’t also order AC with the 2bbl engine you actually got a TH350. But if you did order it with AC you’d actually get a TH400 and the build sheet would show the M40 build code but you’d be billed at the M38 (359) price of $205.92.

Btw, very late in the model year this practice was dropped and any 2bbl 350 with or without air conditioning, ordered with a three speed automatic would have the TH 350 installed.

[johnta1]

Thanks, North for the correction.

[grivera]

Gotcha- well. The pdf of the order sheet shows a faded 351 as well for $205.92

To further complicate the issue, the window sticker they created for me shows code 351 for $227..04

[johnta1]

Who did the windowsticker?

[grivera]

PHS - ordered at the same time as the rest of the PHS doc’s

[grivera]

It’s confirmed- matching VIN on the trans - TH400 on a 2 barrel car without AC. Interesting…

[johnta1]

Might try Mike Noun's site:
(don't know if he would do the tranny price different though)


https://pontiacwindowstickers.com/

[north]

I think on the PHS it’s maybe a 359 with the 9 weakly stamped. There is also a pricing mistake on the power steering. On the full sized cars, the GP and Firebird which had variable ratio power steering and the GTO which got faster 15 to one ratio power steering cost $105.32 but when ordered on a Tempest, Custom S or LeMans (which got 17:5 to one ratio) the charge was $100.05. The code for this was the same 501 despite the price difference.

I suspect the reason the got both wrong is because they probably do a hundred GTO stickers for every LeMans one so by habit they used the GTO options.

The go to guy for very authentic looking window stickers is Mike Noun, he’s on this forum.

[north]

I posted before seeing the last two posts. So the car was built with the wrong transmission, probably why accident but also possible that they were running short of the other transmission that day and they did a little load balancing. The next question I’d be curious about is if it is the correct two barrel version of the transmission or if it is a 350 HO version I don’t have the different codes in front of me but it’s quite easy to read on the tag on the side of the transmission.

[north]

I doubt they would’ve put a four barrel version of the turbo 400 transmission simply because of the speedometer gears installed on them. They are quite different from the ones used on the two barrel versions.

[grivera]

It’s definitely a “1” on the order form - no curve on the digit and doesn’t even remotely match other “9”s on the sheet. Also, here is the tag which I believe is the 2 barrel version.

[north]

Yup, PV is 350 2bbl with AC, PS is the code for 350 HO. Application.

[north]

TH350 was brand new for 69, they probably had supply problems sometimes that might explain this.