[Gach]

Its a possibility those pistons offer by Summit are press fit pins and not full floating. Couldn’t find that information, that would explain allot.

PS also says only 4 left in stock. Maybe more money to get all 8. Who knows

[Gach]

Yup says press fit. My opinion also Speed Pro not the same quality as Ross pistons or else I’m sure Butter would have them available.

[HWYSTR455]

Stroker kits use a different piston pin height and different length rods.

If the bores look very good with no gouges in them then it would probably be safe to go with the .030 over kit. They should square up with less than .030 but yes again, they make them in mass at .030 over, so are less expensive/popular.

Since Butler does the whole kit, it's balanced, and the rods & crank are finished, so the bearings they provide will fit.

Basically, the machine shop will only need to prep the block, so you save money in machine work with the kit.

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[HWYSTR455]

I suggest using main & head studs too.

EDIT: You need new bolts for the heads anyway. E-heads use different bolts/studs than iron heads.

Give the main studs to the machine shop with the block, they will line hone and fit caps using the studs.

I suggest getting neutral balance SFI flex plate and balancer too, not just replacement ones. The SFI ones are not much more and you won't have to worry about the balancer slipping or it being thrown out of balance.


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[kyle_blake]

Thanks Gach, that there in itself speedpro vs ross pistons and quality being why butler probably doesn't carry them seems like a good answer.

Hwy-> Sorry, can you tell me how i save money in machine work with the kit? i realize main bore and cam bore will all be checked so i'll bring my main studs and bolts. And it appears i truly am stuck going 0.030 over so that re-bore will have to be paid too.

I certainly don't want to wait for any custom piston bs .010 or 0.20

I do have a question on how eagle tech support doesn't offer a balanced stroker kit but butler can?

https://butlerperformance.com/c-1459...ssemblies.html

I will for sure buy a balance sfi flex plate for torque converter to attach to. Yes will get a nice SFI new balancer as well.

thanks hwystr455

Real dumb question but for the love of god can i please stick with stock oil pan?

I found where butler says something about bore and the stroker kits:
BORE SIZES
Butler Performance chooses to start Bore Size options for rotating assemblies, short blocks, long blocks, and engines at .030" over. Most engines have normal wear and machining the block and honing the cylinders to .030" over will ensure that you have a good foundation to install your assembly into. This ensures the pistons and rings will seat properly and be within specs and tolerances for building an engine capable of performance, horsepower, and longevity usually found in a Butler Engine.

[HWYSTR455]

Any crank, new or used, needs to be checked before installing. That has already been done on the crank in the kits, as well as other parts.

Just like the bore, even new cranks may need to be turned to make them 'true'. That's already done in the kits.

So the money to prep the crank you have is a saving.

You 'can' stick with the OE pan, but it doesn't provide very good oil control. Not to mention used pans can be dented, tweaked, or whatever, and not fit or leak.

Also, new pans usually have a pickup that is properly size, reduced restrictions, and most have a bar on the bottom to prevent from being too close to the floor of the pan.

It's possible to also have an incident that causes the pan to be dented, making the floor of the pan too close to the pickup, restricting flow.

Aftermarket pickups usually have a retaining strap too, so you don't have to weld the pickup to the pump.

Welding the pickup to the pump in my opinion can compromise the pump body.

As for the comment on bore size by Butler's site, this is what I was talking about when I mentioned 'squaring' up the block. Even if you could use the existing bore, the factory tolerances are not as good as an aftermarket block prep, and usually improves the relationship of the bore centerlines with the crank centerline.


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[kyle_blake]

Oh I understand now thanks for clarifying the cost savings HWYSTRE455.

You've really helped, I see the kit has to arrive at builders and then he do his magic to make the block work / verify all engine block components.

Checking youtube I think montys garage has a butler bottom end kit and you can see the butler papers with weight of each piston etc , rod etc.

Cool. Ok I think it's close to engaging butler and asking about the eagle assemblies and why eagle doesn't sell direct to consumers or make stroker kits and then of course about he full 7500 dollar kit.

Then call machinist .

thanks





I see some of the pans and they have that nice baffle system, cool thanks for that tip!

https://www.summitracing.com/search/...-size/6-6l-400

[gtospieg]

Nothing wrong with Butler...but I would ask about Molnar cranks and rods, I think they can supply you with Molnar parts kits too. I've heard too many stories about Eagle cranks and rods not being to spec as delivered.

[HWYSTR455]

Eagle makes parts and sell to suppliers, so wouldn't think they have rotating kits.

Same with Molnar, and you would have to have the machine work done. Nothing is 'right' out of the box, it all has to be checked, and that's where the Butler kits make the most sense.

The Butler kits can come with a mix of parts too, not just all eagle stuff. I don't think Eagle makes pistons anyway. Don't get stuck on 'Eagle' parts only.

Just to say, Butler can use your core and do the machine work, if you don't want to use the machine shop by you. Ask when you call them.


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[kyle_blake]

Morning, I was able to clarify with Eagle they do offer .4210 and .4250 cranks and if I tell them the bore and stroke they can advise on a kit? It can't hurt to ask Molnar too. You're right no reason to be stuck on 'eagle' parts only. Based on their website they offer pistons from 7 different vendors.

I don't think I'll send my block from Canada down there and back. Not at this point but good to know.

[HWYSTR455]

Yeah, I didn't take into account you are across the border.

A doubt any kit from Eagle is going to be balanced, or I would trust it, they struggle just to get the cranks to spec.

Not sure on pricing either, but Butler buys in large quantities, and bet their' prices are way better.


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[gtospieg]

what HWYSTR455 said..."eagle struggles to get the specs right"...that's why I suggested Molnar. From all I've read, and talked about to Molnar, you won't be sorry.