[70 bird]

Whatever it takes to go fast! Ford and chebby guys don't have a problem with this, some Pontiac guys do? I run a turbo so Im cheating, lol. I do have fun takeing out new LS powered vettes with a Pontiac.

[p4msi1]

There is no more pontiac.period. That means we can do what we want and not rely on what parts Pontiac would produce for us. Why don't we build something better than everybody else. If All Pontiac or Kauffman would build a spread bore block/crank and matching heads with 5-6 bolts per cylinder and 500cfm capacity, they could call it Pontiac 2.0. We don't know if Pontiac would have built it if they still existed. I think as long as it appears to look like a pontiac and it has a pontiac name on it, and we call it a pontiac, its a pontiac.
Fords new 5.0 does not look like an old 5.0, so is it a ford?
The ls-1 does not look like a typical small block so, is it a chevy?
The new dodges don't start like or look like the old ones. are they dodges?
You guys are getting your panties in a wad over nuthin. You keep peddling the old junk heads and overheated cracked blocks and thats what gets chevy motors in our beloved GTO's and Firebirds. HEY, purist puke, LOOK at me when I'm talking to you... My IA2 block and Tiger heads are not factory correct for my 1969 model year Pontiac Firebird. Man, I'm just gettin started.........

Steve

[David Holmberg]

Originally Posted by twinturrbo406

... I agree David, but while I have you here, you think you can look into my profile, as I am not able to send PM's for some reason ?? ... I can respond to them, but that's all ...

... thanks ...

Thats odd, Mods don't have that ability, but I will put the right person in touch with you.

[Ron Genovese]

http://www.steveschmidtracing.com/dr...80-billet-hemi
If these guys can call this a Chevy, we can call anything from the Pontiac community a Pontiac!

[Jack Ferris]

Originally Posted by p4msi1

There is no more pontiac.period. That means we can do what we want and not rely on what parts Pontiac would produce for us. Why don't we build something better than everybody else. If All Pontiac or Kauffman would build a spread bore block/crank and matching heads with 5-6 bolts per cylinder and 500cfm capacity, they could call it Pontiac 2.0. We don't know if Pontiac would have built it if they still existed. I think as long as it appears to look like a pontiac and it has a pontiac name on it, and we call it a pontiac, its a pontiac.
Fords new 5.0 does not look like an old 5.0, so is it a ford?
The ls-1 does not look like a typical small block so, is it a chevy?
The new dodges don't start like or look like the old ones. are they dodges?
You guys are getting your panties in a wad over nuthin. You keep peddling the old junk heads and overheated cracked blocks and thats what gets chevy motors in our beloved GTO's and Firebirds. HEY, purist puke, LOOK at me when I'm talking to you... My IA2 block and Tiger heads are not factory correct for my 1969 model year Pontiac Firebird. Man, I'm just gettin started.........

Steve

Relax Francis Sawyer. Your the one getting all wound up over nothing.

[ponjohn]

When the bore spacing changes.

[p4msi1]

Who is Francis Sawyer, that you are calling me, Mr. Ferris?

Steve

[Bnick166]

Could be wrong.........but here's what I was able to come up with...............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XlnCgpLl1I

[Jack Ferris]

Originally Posted by p4msi1

Who is Francis Sawyer, that you are calling me, Mr. Ferris?

Steve

It's a character from the movie Stripes. He seemed to have an anger issue comparable to the post you wrote.

[Jack Ferris]

Originally Posted by Bnick166

Could be wrong.........but here's what I was able to come up with...............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XlnCgpLl1I

Thats it! LOL

[mgarblik]

I am not responsible for this definition and can't remember where I heard it but it made me think. I was told " if the engine can't be identified as a known other brand, such as Chevy, Mopar, Ford, Toyota, then call it a Pontiac". Sounds a little strange when you first hear it, but it kinds makes sense in a way too. My personal definition is if it is a Pontiac, it should have substantial Pontiac engineering in the engine package. I don't care who makes the parts. To me, that means stock bore spacing, main spacing, in-line valve arrangement, 10 head bolts, a timing case and a valley cover. However, the canted valve, open bore spacing stuff if perfectly fine for other folks. I wouldn't be running around saying they aren't Pontiacs based on the first definition. Our hobby is so small and getting smaller, excluding people doesn't seem very smart.

[GTO4spd]

The Pontiac engine had some short comings, if the aftermarket addresses this, it's still a Pontiac engine.

[miltmilton]

I know that Steve Barcak will disagree with this (and I do support his "NO Corporate BS), but my G8 GXP has an LS3 in it and they still call it a Pontiac and one of the last BTW. On another note, I've run several times at the Norwalk Pontiac Tri-Power Nats against guys with BBC in their "Pontiac" rides. Beauty (IE: Pontiac) is in the eye of the beholder.

milt

[lemans411]

Originally Posted by twinturrbo406

... so what's the opinion on lifter-bore design/placement and cam tunnel design changes ?? ... as in moved lifter bores, size options, cam journal design changes ?? ...

... Pontiac or not Pontiac ?? ...

a modified pontiac is still a pontiac in my opinion, if pontiac heads bolt on its a pontiac,

[lemans411]

they call a 5.3" bore space bbc a bbc, its just a bigger one, if we had a bigger bore space option and different cam and lobe option it wouldnt be a pure pontiac but it would be able to compete with the big dog bbc engines that arent real bbc's

[72projectbird]

Originally Posted by lemans411

they call a 5.3" bore space bbc a bbc, its just a bigger one, if we had a bigger bore space option and different cam and lobe option it wouldnt be a pure pontiac but it would be able to compete with the big dog bbc engines that arent real bbc's

Or maybe...... just maybe, it could be a big block Pontiac?

Maybe

[p4msi1]

Jack, go back and re-read my post and take it within the context that it was written. " purist puke" as in the purist that critisizes my car for not being factory correct. I can take that opinion if I want. I can see why you are lashing out at me because I read your signature Restorace. I guess you do some kind of restoring of factory correct race cars? Or model cars? And thats OK, I certainly won't stoop to calling you a name on the internet. You don't know me at all but you call me Francis Sawyer? I believe he was the character that wanted to be called Psycho. Was I that far off base??? Have a sucessful business for over 20 years never been refered to as a psycho.

Steve

[Jack Ferris]

Dude Im just messin with you. Relax...

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by Ron Genovese

http://www.steveschmidtracing.com/dr...80-billet-hemi
If these guys can call this a Chevy, we can call anything from the Pontiac community a Pontiac!

Well Mickey Thompson DID make and sell HEMI heads for the traditional Pontiac Engine so your comment can't be because the Chebby engine is a HEMI. At least Mickey was 50 years ahead of the Chebby guys on that concept.

Tom Vaught

[Travis Q]

To me, it's all in what you want to call it.

Some say if it's got aftermarket block and heads, it's not a Pontiac anymore.

Some say if it's got a spread bore spacing, it's not a Pontiac anymore.

Some say if you can't bolt a factory timing cover on it anymore, it's not a Pontiac.

If you look at some of the popular racing engines, you see something interesting...CN blocks call their 5.3 bore space block a "BBC". However, it has a much bigger bore spacing, a factory oil pan won't work, a factory timing cover won't even come close, and there's not even a provision for a distributor. Is it a BBC anymore? Some would say no. I, however say yes, because of this fact: the engine reflects changes in design that started off as a factory block. Here's what I mean....one of the first changes to a BBC was deck height. Big deck heights became really common. Then came bigger bore centers. First came 4.900", then 5.000", then 5.200", the 5.300", before ADRL and NHRA finally said "no mas" and put the limit at 5.300" in an effort to contain costs (funny in and of itself). Then there were really big cam core diameters, and radically moved lifters. Some even have skirted mains. At the end of the day, can we really say that it's a Chevy? Not really, but it is still regarded as a BBC because that's where the foundation was.

So the question is, does anyone want to stifle progression in Pontiac parts (and therefore performance) because of an idea of what does or does not constitute a "real" Pontiac? To me, there's not enough people doing fast Pontiacs as it is.....why make life any harder?

It is what it is, and to each his own, I say.

FWIW.