[misterp266]

WIP
For those not on FB.

[mgarblik]

That's cool. I see provisions for 4 extra head bolts per side in the lifter gallery as well. Happen to have any pics of how they clamp the crankshaft in the block? That's the heart of the design. Cross bolting seems to be a clear winner there in ultra high HP applications. As wide as the Pontiac block is, I would design it to take 4 vertical 9/16" studs in all 5 locations and 2, 1/2" cross bolts in each cap. If there was room.

[tom s]

Did you guys happen to notice we have a manifold casting?Tom

[misterp266]

That’s all they’ve posted so far Mike but by the looks of it, it’s not a skirted block so I would guess no cross bolts. We’ll see.

[mgarblik]

Yes, your right after a look at the rear shot of the block. Possibly, they have some sort of mid-plate in mind that would incorporate the main caps somehow. Just having the caps bolted to the pan rail on the outside doesn't offer much strength to the lower end, unfortunately. They are smart guys, I assume they have something in mind for the bottom end.

Tom, I just now saw the pic of a production casting? Looks right out of the mold. How cool is that. Way to go.

[Pav8427]

That looks like a piece of art. Being from the machining world, I would sure like to see a time lapsed video of the chips being made. Would guess the block they started with is much heavier than what they ended up with.

[johnta1]

Their facebook page has some videos, not sure if that's what you want:

KRE

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

That's cool. I see provisions for 4 extra head bolts per side in the lifter gallery as well. Happen to have any pics of how they clamp the crankshaft in the block? That's the heart of the design. Cross bolting seems to be a clear winner there in ultra high HP applications. As wide as the Pontiac block is, I would design it to take 4 vertical 9/16" studs in all 5 locations and 2, 1/2" cross bolts in each cap. If there was room.

No drilling for the cross-bolt caps in picture #3. If you look down the cylinder you can see the block "ends" at the main cap mounting point.
So without a "pan/skirt", no provision to do the cross-bolt caps Mike.

Tom V.

[Dragncar]

If this new block does not have cross bolted mains, what is the point ?
When I first seen the thread title I thought for sure it would have them.

[ponjohn]

Originally Posted by misterp266

That’s all they’ve posted so far Mike but by the looks of it, it’s not a skirted block so I would guess no cross bolts. We’ll see.

I asked about why a billet SBC block was not made with a skirted block and I got flamed.



Darrin Morgan actually replied and said it was not need up to about 8500hp.



I just think it makes sense but I guess the experts disagree.

[mgarblik]

I would like to discuss this with Darin Morgan further. Obviously, with his general love of the BBC based powerplants, he has lots of experience with making a non-skirted block live at high RPM's and HP. But conversely, I don't know of a single V-8 modern engine design in the last 25 years that is not a deep skirted design from any manufacturer. Ford modular, GM LS, Chrysler Hemi, all deep skirted. This design uses more material, is much more complicated to cast, is heavier, and cost more to produce. Why would all of the big three do this if their was no benefit? It's a head scratcher.

May I ask where you were discussing this with him? An open forum like Speed Talk? I hate to call him about little stuff like this. Thanks.

[Tom Vaught]

My thought would be that the engine build process takes a lot more effort to get the cross-bolted skirted blocks properly loaded CORRECTLY vs the old school blocks.

You machine the blocks incorrectly or build the blocks incorrectly and you will have the same block failures and the cross-bolted mains did nothing for you.

The Chrysler guys, the Ford Guys, and now the LS guys have a lot of experience in doing cross-bolted skirted blocks correctly.
As do BAE and the other super high HP Engine sellers.


I personally do not go much by what some post on speed talk, especially with how long a block will "Live". The only way to know is to run the blocks to failure after many times over 1000 engine hours of testing, AND at some point the BLOCKS will fail.

We tested typically 3 blocks to failure and they never were with-in 200 hours of each other on the failure. Most times the failure was the connecting rods, not the block.

Tom V.

[GTOGEORGE]

I’m sure KRE has experience from Tommy’s car and didn’t install side bolts because it wasn’t needed with the HP of the Pontiac engine about 3,700 or maybe they had other reasons! Engineers do things for a reason! LOL!


GTO George

[Jack Gifford]

Originally Posted by ponjohn

... Darrin Morgan actually replied and said it was not need up to about 8500hp...

8500 horsepower???

[Tom Vaught]

Yep, Jack, 8500 HP. How come every couple of years people add a couple of thousand HP to their engines capabilities?

Tom V.

[ponjohn]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

I would like to discuss this with Darin Morgan further. Obviously, with his general love of the BBC based powerplants, he has lots of experience with making a non-skirted block live at high RPM's and HP. But conversely, I don't know of a single V-8 modern engine design in the last 25 years that is not a deep skirted design from any manufacturer. Ford modular, GM LS, Chrysler Hemi, all deep skirted. This design uses more material, is much more complicated to cast, is heavier, and cost more to produce. Why would all of the big three do this if their was no benefit? It's a head scratcher.

May I ask where you were discussing this with him? An open forum like Speed Talk? I hate to call him about little stuff like this. Thanks.

Facebook, I will try and find it.

[ponjohn]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

I would like to discuss this with Darin Morgan further. Obviously, with his general love of the BBC based powerplants, he has lots of experience with making a non-skirted block live at high RPM's and HP. But conversely, I don't know of a single V-8 modern engine design in the last 25 years that is not a deep skirted design from any manufacturer. Ford modular, GM LS, Chrysler Hemi, all deep skirted. This design uses more material, is much more complicated to cast, is heavier, and cost more to produce. Why would all of the big three do this if their was no benefit? It's a head scratcher.

May I ask where you were discussing this with him? An open forum like Speed Talk? I hate to call him about little stuff like this. Thanks.

Here it is... https://www.facebook.com/darin.morgan scroll down to Dec 11.


I correct the HP figure 5500.

[Tom Vaught]

WONDERED WHERE THAT OTHER 3000 HORSEPOWER SUDDENLY CAME FROM. LOL.

Tom V.

[J.C.you]

Maybe the generation 4 block will have the crossbolt feature.
Baby steps...A 5500 Hp poncho hasn't been cracked yet?

[Dragncar]

LSM makes a cross bolt block and I believe so does Visner. 3fast put up some picks of his LSM block awhile back. 2 of them ?