[fiedlerh]

As for Mattison not getting any business from the early VIN's, there are literally millions of Pontiac owners that don't know about his business.
Possibly even don't care.

True, but I was just repeating something that Jim said. Of all the vehicles he gets inquiries for, very few are for early production cars. I assume he meant the first month or two of production. He also said he doesn't know why this is and assumed that fewer early production cars survive. This statistic has nothing to do with the number of people who know about PHS. I have my theories, but that's not the topic here.

I agree with Rocky. Any special built vehicle in 1973 would not likely have been built on a production line. In my opinion it would have had to have been built by engineering and this is highly unlikely.

[johnta1]

Rocky, wouldn't Tom Nell, Herb Adams and others be the ones to talk to about the SD since they worked on the SD program?

[fiedlerh]

BTW, I'm less than an hour away from Lyons, but won't pay money to see paperwork. I'd rather see the car.

[goquick]

I do know of one non production car with the SD455 as I stated earlier, but that car did go back to GM and no doubt destroyed. Ashame too. That car would lay some serious road coating down with both rear tires. Seen him do it alot. In fact, he replaced the tires out of his own pocket at least once. Don't know if GM said anything to him about that or not. Even the larger rear tires didn't stop the protective road coatings.

[Rocky Rotella]

John, it was Skip McCully and Mike Hicks that were in charge of the SD project. Skip headed the Special Projects side (working with Adams and Nell), and Hicks handled production. Regardless, these guys were involved in development. The actual product planning was another facet headed by Goad who worked with upper management. The engineers had little to do with eventual model availability unless building an engine for a specific model.

[uneasyrider]

Originally Posted by David Holmberg

OK, ONE MORE TIME, PLEASE keep this on TOPIC.
Continued off topic posts will result in warnings.

Thank you.

Thanks Dave.

[johnta1]

Hmmm ... OK I guess.

Must not have told some of them guys about it I guess.

The engineers had little to do with eventual model availability unless building an engine for a specific model.

So if you wanted a SD Grand Prix who would you call?

[Rocky Rotella]

Didn't tell who about what?

[johnta1]

The guys working on the SD program.

[Rocky Rotella]

Oh! I thought you meant that I didn't tell somebody something.

Yeah, engineering didn't always have their way, and that's definitely the case with the SD-455. As we know it received several concession just to reach production, and then the planners (actually upper managment) decided to limit its availability.

[NHRASuperStock455SD]

This thread has taken a life of it's own! Thanks Dave for trying to keep it civil.

Yes, I have had numerous conversations and emails with Alex. Since he is unwilling to share any of his documentation, I consider it a dead issue. It can only be considered an "undocumented claim" at very best.

If I were everyone, I would be skeptical too. I know Alex and happen to believe him, understand why many of you don't. I also understand why he doesn't want to go public with it. I just thought it was a good discussion, and share your disappointment of the chance to document something.

Being a Pontiac guy from Indy, and consultant in Detroit, you wouldn't believe the cars I have seen. I cant prove any of them were built either, but they were all cool and I talk about them just the same. Including those two blue 69 TA's I saw in person. It was real interesting to see two blue ones on TV when watching the history of the Trans Am.

Lynn

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by NHRASuperStock455SD

This thread has taken a life of it's own! Thanks Dave for trying to keep it civil.

Yes, I have had numerous conversations and emails with Alex. Since he is unwilling to share any of his documentation, I consider it a dead issue. It can only be considered an "undocumented claim" at very best.

If I were everyone, I would be skeptical too. I know Alex and happen to believe him, understand why many of you don't. I also understand why he doesn't want to go public with it. I just thought it was a good discussion, and share your disappointment of the chance to document something.

Being a Pontiac guy from Indy, and consultant in Detroit, you wouldn't believe the cars I have seen. I cant prove any of them were built either, but they were all cool and I talk about them just the same. Including those two blue 69 TA's I saw in person. It was real interesting to see two blue ones on TV when watching the history of the Trans Am.

Lynn

He doesn't want to go public with it because he knows it would prove beyond any measure of reasonable doubt that he is full of sh!t.

Believe him if you want, Lynn...he never had such a factory built car.

If he changes his mind, my offer still stands on sending the payment for the PHS documents.

[77 Canamman]

Originally Posted by Brian Baker

He doesn't want to go public with it because he knows it would prove beyond any measure of reasonable doubt that he is full of sh!t.

Believe him if you want, Lynn...he never had such a factory built car..

Yup, time to put the waders away until another full of s.hit story surfaces again, and without a doubt, it will.

[mscicluna007]

I was able to obtain the SD 455 with date code E241 and Partial VIN and after obtaining PHS this belonged to the 1973 Grandam that was testing the Pre Production SD 455. The Previous owner Rick Annis was an Ex GM automotive Gearboxe Engineer and was able to get this motor in the early 80's. It was tired and recently recieved a rebuild. Which started to make him think how he would use it. He didn't know the origins of this motor and its something we were ablento unpack together so it gas been exciting.

PHS showed this vehicle to carry X on the VIN.

ROCKY has done a write up but so I am happy tonshare what I have on this Vehicle with PHS and VIN.

https://www.pontiacv8.com/blog/2022/...nd-am-produced

This engine carried the K Code cam also that was not used in the rebuild. I sent thisbout to Rocky to document before shipping back to me.

https://www.pontiacv8.com/blog/2022/...320-k-camshaft

Enjoy

Michael

[455dan]

Originally Posted by mscicluna007

I was able to obtain the SD 455 with date code E241 and Partial VIN and after obtaining PHS this belonged to the 1973 Grandam that was testing the Pre Production SD 455. The Previous owner Rick Annis was an Ex GM automotive Gearboxe Engineer and was able to get this motor in the early 80's. It was tired and recently recieved a rebuild. Which started to make him think how he would use it. He didn't know the origins of this motor and its something we were ablento unpack together so it gas been exciting.

PHS showed this vehicle to carry X on the VIN.

ROCKY has done a write up but so I am happy to share what I have on this Vehicle with PHS and VIN.

https://www.pontiacv8.com/blog/2022/...nd-am-produced

This engine carried the K Code cam also that was not used in the rebuild. I sent thisbout to Rocky to document before shipping back to me.

https://www.pontiacv8.com/blog/2022/...320-k-camshaft

Enjoy

Michael

Just read the whole thread, and am still a bit confused

It is amazing that a K code RA 4 style SD cam has been found.

But,
Does the Car with the posted build sheet still exist?


edit

Oh I missed the other link

the one-off Grand Am wasn’t relevant or saleable and was relegated to engineering use. It's likely that once the Grand Am’s body was destroyed in testing, its SD-455 was plucked and pressed into service for other duties ultimately landing at DPG. I suppose it’s remotely possible that the Grand Am’s body is out there somewhere, but I’d venture to say it’s highly unlikely. The again, it took half a century later for its engine to surface!

Wow, Here is Hoping that Grand Am is still out there.

[R 70 Judge]

Originally Posted by NHRASuperStock455SD

LOL,

Well I knew someone would say something. Just like they never built any 69 TA's blue with white stripes. I was at Tom Wood Pontiac in late 1969 and there were two blue ones on the trailer.

This thread is incredibly old but I can't say that I've even seen a Blue '69 TA. With all of the super rare cars that have come out of the woodwork over the years like the prototype '69 TA, Adriatic/Cardinal/Starlight '72 TA's, etc... You'd think we would have found at least one.

[mscicluna007]

Here is some pictures since I have had time to unboxe and have a look over it all.

Michael

[242177P]

Originally Posted by Brian Baker

I think by 1973, Ace Wilson's Royal Pontiac was "dead", but even still, this would be a DEALER INSTALLED engine and that's not what we're discussing here.

Also worth mentioning that the EPA actually sued Wangers for his attempts at installing LS7 crate motors. The smog-era was nothing like the years which preceded it.

[sdbob]

A collector friend actually witnessed an ad for complete crate SD455s(more than one) from a dealer. Cant remember Michigan,Wisconsin areas.

[turbo69bird]

I’m not making ANY claims but let’s just say this is a pretty old picture .