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Old 01-03-2016, 08:50 AM
BruceWilkie BruceWilkie is offline
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I never noticed the sump depth on mine as the sump was rotted from being on the ground a few decades. I did notice more front cap clearance than both a 69 400 (YD)pan and my Canton pan. I grafted that section onto my Canton pan, as it was modified for belt drive when I got it used for a good price.

Any chance of you measuring the crank pilot hole? (Diameter/depth) I think mine was machined as it had a roller bearing in there. Mine is bigger ID and @same depth as my 69 400 crank. The hub OD measures 2.6 " as the early cranks should.
Thanks

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Old 01-03-2016, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceWilkie View Post
I never noticed the sump depth on mine as the sump was rotted from being on the ground a few decades. I did notice more front cap clearance than both a 69 400 (YD)pan and my Canton pan. I grafted that section onto my Canton pan, as it was modified for belt drive when I got it used for a good price.

Any chance of you measuring the crank pilot hole? (Diameter/depth) I think mine was machined as it had a roller bearing in there. Mine is bigger ID and @same depth as my 69 400 crank. The hub OD measures 2.6 " as the early cranks should.
Thanks
I'll do that as soon as I can reach that spot with my calipers, unfortunately right now there's no room to do that with the engine on the stand.

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  #83  
Old 01-03-2016, 01:32 PM
56 Batwing 56 Batwing is offline
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Here is a post that has good info on the water distribution tubes. CPR lists the water distribution tubes as "inquire" so they may have a lead on them.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...tribution+tube

  #84  
Old 01-03-2016, 05:51 PM
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I personally (if I had a engine that needed them) install the water tubes EXACTLY the way the engineers show them as being installed. Assuming that the stuff is the same (Water flow wise to the critical areas) is typically not a good idea.

Engineers put them in a certain way for a reason.

Tom V.

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  #85  
Old 01-03-2016, 06:49 PM
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Default I took apart.....

.....a few more things before the holidays are over with. Tomorrow it's back to work so there will be less time to fiddle around and clean filthy old engine parts.

I removed the fuel pump eccentric, the timing set and the cam thrust plate. Everything came apart easily without a fight, I gently pried with two long screwdrivers on each side of the cam sprockets and slid them off without any fuss.



The timing chain is a bit stretched, but really not all that bad. Being in decent shape tells me that it was serviced not all that long before the car was sent to the boneyard. It will be replaced with a good used double-roller set I have kicking around.



Trying to ID the cam here, not quite sure what that stamping indicates. The factory stock '472' cam would have letter stamp 'D' on the nose. Not that it really matters all that much, I just want to know for the sake of learning the history on this old 389.

This old worn cam will be replaced with a good used 068 cam and lifter set, that is if it all checks out good. If not, I'll buy some new parts.



Here's the fuel pump eccentric assembly that also serves to fasten the upper timing sprocket to the nose of the cam.



Note that the outer sliding ring on the pump eccentric is not trapped or held onto the inner eccentric other than by the fuel pump drive arm, unlike later designs. This means you can't run the engine with an electric pump by just simply blocking off the pump opening in the timing cover with a plate, you must remove the timing cover and take off the outer ring so it won't foul up the works in there.



The distributor slipped right out, often on Pontiac engines they're stuck tight from varnish buildup. I've struggled with these in the boneyards and given up and left them there, even after standing on top of the engine twisting and tugging with all my might while using penetrating oil or solvent to loosen it.



Turns out it's a distributor that's used on a lot of '64 -'66 GTO engine applications, part number 1111054. I have the same 1111054 distributor that's been rebuilt and re-curved in my '64 421 HO.



Looks to be in good shape, so I'll give a good wiping down and use it as-is after putting a new set of points in it. These old iron-body distributors are very nice and accurate. The shaft bushings don't seem to wear out on them easily, they're a very good basis for a performance distributor build.



Here's the sexy, professionally restored/rebuilt 1111054 that now resides in my '64 421 HO.



Back to sleep until next time, I left the oil pan off to give the last bit of dirty oil a chance to drip out.


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  #86  
Old 01-03-2016, 06:59 PM
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Looks like a 'W' on the cam?

73-76 2bbl cam?



Thanks for the posts.


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  #87  
Old 01-03-2016, 08:00 PM
BruceWilkie BruceWilkie is offline
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My 59 distributor has an oil tube for maintenance...but number looks familiar. I'll check mine and post a pic.

  #88  
Old 01-04-2016, 11:21 PM
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Default Heavy Metal

Tossed a few items on our shipping scale at work.

The bare iron timing cover weighed in at a whopping 18 pounds. The water pump added another 4.5 pounds.



Tri-Power intake weighs 39.5 pounds. Comparable to the weight of the popular '67 -'72 iron Q-jet intakes.



The 2-barrel intake weighs 38.5 pounds, surprisingly just one pound less than the Tri-Power.


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  #89  
Old 01-04-2016, 11:53 PM
hurryinhoosier62 hurryinhoosier62 is offline
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My '59 389 block is on its way from California. I should be receiving it next Tuesday.

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  #90  
Old 01-05-2016, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62 View Post
My '59 389 block is on its way from California. I should be receiving it next Tuesday.
Very cool.

Frank's Pontiac Parts?

Toss, er heave it onto a scale if you get the chance.


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  #91  
Old 01-05-2016, 12:59 AM
hurryinhoosier62 hurryinhoosier62 is offline
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Originally Posted by b-man View Post
Very cool.

Frank's Pontiac Parts?

Toss, er heave it onto a scale if you get the chance.

Yep. It will be going to the machine shop for shot blasting and a long bath in LPS 3 until I can get it back to IN for long-term storage. Since my last back surgery in 2009, I don't lift ANYTHING over 50 lbs. I'll take YRC's word for it: 200 lbs.

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  #92  
Old 01-05-2016, 02:08 AM
rexs73gto rexs73gto is offline
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I see theres a hole in the end of the cam, is there any advantage to having a hole in the end of the cam.?? I would expect that it's there for extra oiling but is it there for any EXTRA help in oiling??

  #93  
Old 01-09-2016, 04:05 PM
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Default Oil Pump

I removed the oil pump, took it apart and cleaned it up. Here are a few of the differences between it and the later Melling M54DS 60 psi replacement pump.

To begin with it has helical pump gears in it, something I really didn't expect to see.



Melling straight-cut gears on the left, 1959 OEM gears on the right.



The pickup tube on the Mellings pump is .750" O.D. with the 1959 pickup tube measuring only .575".





Here's a look at the pump castings themselves, note the different angles of the relief valves.





The pump cavities look very much the same on both, no real differences that I could detect.


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  #94  
Old 01-11-2016, 07:45 AM
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What the heck is a valve guide vent, and why do I need it?? I'm replacing the valves, so do I need to put these recesses in the new valves?

  #95  
Old 01-11-2016, 03:26 PM
hurryinhoosier62 hurryinhoosier62 is offline
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YRC called this afternoon. I pick up my '59 389 on Wednesday.

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  #96  
Old 01-11-2016, 07:44 PM
blykins blykins is offline
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I've thought about giving Frank's Pontiac Parts some business. They have a 455 block on their website that I'd like to own.....

  #97  
Old 01-11-2016, 08:07 PM
hurryinhoosier62 hurryinhoosier62 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blykins View Post
I've thought about giving Frank's Pontiac Parts some business. They have a 455 block on their website that I'd like to own.....
Good people to work with. They only take postal money orders or Western Union, but the transaction are processed quickly. They won't arrange shipping, but will refer to a company that is VERY good in arranging shipping. I'm saving up my pennies for the 2nd '59-'60 389 block they have.

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  #98  
Old 01-11-2016, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azbirds View Post
What the heck is a valve guide vent, and why do I need it?? I'm replacing the valves, so do I need to put these recesses in the new valves?
You running 1960 or earlier heads on your engine?

If not, you don't need to worry about vented valve guides.

Only us guys who mess around with the most ancient of Pontiac iron have these issues to deal with.....

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  #99  
Old 01-12-2016, 01:23 AM
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It is a late 59. It has the bosses, but they aren't drilled. The valves do have the machined relief in them. Someone put a regular oil pump in it so I have to get the pickup tube figured out.

  #100  
Old 01-12-2016, 01:28 AM
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You really don't need the valve guide vents to be operational.

Later heads dispensed with this feature, so I'd say they're pretty much optional.

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