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#21
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One thing to consider is that all Pontiac are not created equal when it comes to cooling. Radiator surface area is a game changer! Making a radiator thicker is diminishing returns. The older cars have really small surface area radiators (Not good).
One thing that handicaps new car mileage is weight. All the crap that we can't live without these days. My '01 Saturn SL2 would knock down 34mpg while running the crap out of it and 80 mph on the highway. But it was a tiny, light, car. Those 1.9's are great engines! Just better watch the oil when they get over 100k! |
#22
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Thanks for the suggestions Tom, JSchmitz.
Dad put 500 miles on the odometer after finishing the restoration, and I've put about 500 on it. Total rebuild of the engine by an engine guru near home, so the coolant is "old" (2016) but not very used (mileage). Based on that guru's reputations, I'm willing to assume that the water pump impeller clearance is correct as I've read that can cause poor flow. The radiator is filled up just enough to cover the core, so I know there's at least plenty of coolant in there. I'll start with testing the temp sensor and maybe the t-stat. Flushing the cooling system wouldn't be that hard for me either if it might help. How important is a 50:50 mix of coolant and water to the cooling performance? Does the age of the coolant (going on 5 years now easily) make a difference?
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64 GTO 455 Tri Power Sunfire Red |
#23
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Curious.... by "small surface area" are you referring to total surface area across all of the fins, or are you talking length x width of the radiator? I see a lot of cars at cruises that have (what I believe to be) after-market radiators that are much wider than mine. Not really interested in making those kinds of mods, just need to learn.
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64 GTO 455 Tri Power Sunfire Red |
#24
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#26
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A non-air-conditioned vehicle that's actually running 220 at idle or cruise, is getting too hot. Not hot enough to cause damage, but hotter than a properly-functioning engine and cooling system should get. If you had a 195-degree thermostat, it'd be running too hot. Most likely, you've got a 180, and maybe a 160 degree thermostat, and 220 is just nucking futs. Quote:
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In other words, the coolant level in the overflow jug would vary--highest when hot, lowest when cold, with the radiator being F-U-L-L 100% of the time. Quote:
I've run as much as 80% antifreeze. My engine didn't overheat. "I" would be very reluctant to replace 1000-mile coolant without a very good reason. Yeah, it's at the limit for age; but that also assumes use which your vehicle doesn't have. Point being, it's not the age of the coolant that's causing the engine to run hot. |
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#27
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Im always surprised that hybrid technology hasnt affected more car models. The industry wants to just straight to electric, but it always seemed to me that we could make hyrbid motors much more efficient and take our time getting the entire nation/infastructure ready to go full electric.
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1967 Firebird 462 580hp/590ftlbs 1962 Pontiac Catalina Safari Swapped in Turd of an Olds 455 Owner/Creator Catfish Motorsports https://www.youtube.com/@CatfishMotorsports |
#28
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64 GTO 455 Tri Power Sunfire Red |
#29
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I know you live in FL but on your coldest days with the heater blowing, what temperature does it run? Probably right on your thermostat rating. And now in the summer, the cooling system is no longer able to maintain that temperature. Wouldn't that give you pause for concern?
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#30
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fWIW: I generally creep to 180 at maximum while in traffic at a standstill with 90-100 degree ambient temps on a hot FL summer day…. Temps will drop to thermostat temps with the car moving again. When ambient temps start dropping to the 80 degree range the engine will stay at tstat temp Chasing cooling temps can be a hobby until you find what works…….waaaaaaayyyyy too many variables especially since you are living in a hot and humid environment, your cooling system needs to be well sorted.
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71 GTO, 463, KRE 295 cfm heads ported by SD Performance, RPM intake, Qjet, Dougs Headers, Comp cams HR 246/252 ...11 to 1 , 3.55 cogs, 3985lbs.....day three- 11.04 at 120mph ....1.53 60', 6.98 1/8 mile |
#31
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I tested the gauge and probe by putting the probe in boiling water (used a portable induction surface right there in the engine compartment) and the gauge was right on 210 when the water was boiling. In my book, that's plenty good. I'll just need to pay closer attention next few times I'm out to see what's going on. Maybe it's all in my head and nothings wrong, just want to be cautious rather than sorry.
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64 GTO 455 Tri Power Sunfire Red |
#32
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64 GTO 455 Tri Power Sunfire Red |
#33
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EXCELLENT step 1 verification... proof gauge is showing you real data (really close anyway) |
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#34
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I use a 160F thermostat in non-computer cars and Judge runs under 180F even on hot Florida days with the AC on. Four core radiator, water wetter, 7 blade clutched fan, and a close fitting shroud. Warmed over 400/Muncie.
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#35
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The only reason that the engines were made to run that hot was for emissions. A cooler engine makes more power, and has more longevity. Heat makes metal more malleable, which increases the wear rate.
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77 Trans Am, 469 w/ported E-Heads via Kauffman, matched HSD intake, Butler Performance forged rotating assembly, Comp custom hyd roller, Q-jet, Art Carr 200 4R, 3.42s, 3 inch exhaust w/Doug's cutouts, D.U.I. Ignition. 7.40 in the 8th, 11.61@116.07 in the quarter...still tuning. |
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#36
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Within reason, higher temps INCREASE engine life. "Malleability" is not a concern, detonation could be. But 220 at idle or cruise isn't "within reason" for this vehicle. There's no problem for engine life per se due to the temperature, but power output will be down, chance of detonation could increase, and the detonation could cause engine damage. |
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#37
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Manufacturers have had 50+ years to sort out their cooling systems. We might say that they were still learning when our cars were made. The temperature reading is an average of coolant from cooler and hotter internal passages in the engine. A 220° thermostat reading is an average of say 200° coolant and 240° coolant (or even a greater spread). Personally I feel much better if my average is a combination of 160° and 200° showing 180° on a gauge. Newer vehicles with aluminum heads and some with aluminum blocks do a much better job of distributing heat and the temperature spread coming up to the thermostat is much better controlled and they can bump the overall average operating temperature higher.
An example of temperature spread would be coolant that goes from the block to the head at the front inside of the engine block/head is going to be much cooler than coolant from the passage going into the head on the outside passages near the two center exhaust ports of the engine.
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Mick Batson 1967 original owner Tyro Blue/black top 4-speed HO GTO with all the original parts stored safely away -- 1965 2+2 survivor AC auto -- 1965 Catalina Safari Wagon in progress. |
#38
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After a month of delays (life happens) I was finally able to play with the '64 this afternoon. I ran it @ idle in my shop, started with the radiator cap off. Water was a touch over the fins inside and stagnant until somewhere around 160 then it started moving around a bit, then a few minutes later it was flowing pretty good. Put the cap back on and let it run and seemed to stabilize around 180. That was pretty satisfying to see. Total idle time was about 20 minutes.
I then took it out for about a 20 minute drive, not horsing around much just 40-60 mph driving and it ran pretty steady around 190, climbed to 195 at a long light, then back to 190 when I got moving. Ambient air temp was mid to high 80s. All that said, I feel pretty good about the temp now. I'm going to assume everything is OK and that I don't need to mess around with the other suggestions, but will be sure to keep an eye on that gauge. The more I get used to seeing where the temp (and other gauges) are at on a normal basis, the better off I'll be. Thanks for the help.
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64 GTO 455 Tri Power Sunfire Red |
#39
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I'm confused?
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“Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan Press On! has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.” ― Calvin Coolidge |
#40
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Really nothing. It's hard to explain why I had the 220+ temps when I posted originally.... but at the center of it all was a loose radiator cap.... need I say more?
I suffer from "rectal cranial inversion" sometimes and that's the best explanation.
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64 GTO 455 Tri Power Sunfire Red Last edited by 64cabro; 10-09-2021 at 05:37 PM. |
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