#21  
Old 09-06-2021, 10:09 PM
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You'll get more accurate fueling with one.

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Old 09-06-2021, 10:12 PM
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I’m using the holley 59.5 psi filter/regulator. Same concept but a beefier package to the oem type pumps.

Lots of horror stories about the factory c5 type regulators getting overpowered by more powerful fuel pumps. I have a 400 lph pump.

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  #23  
Old 09-06-2021, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by RocktimusPryme View Post

Lots of horror stories about the factory c5 type regulators getting overpowered by more powerful fuel pumps. I have a 400 lph pump.
That's why I mentioned they have only worked okay for me with stock or very mild setups, most likely because the pumps in those applications weren't all that big. I also run a 400 lph in my own, and I just swapped in a 450 lph in dad's car.

It's not overly difficult these days to make 500hp or more with most any brand engine with just bolt on parts. In which case I would not recommend the corvette style filter/regulator. It would be time to step up to a good size feed and return, with a good regulator, preferably close to the engine, and a big enough pump capable of supplying the HP being made.

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Old 09-07-2021, 03:09 AM
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In the end, what will F.I. give you over a good carb .

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Old 09-07-2021, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Dragncar View Post
In the end, what will F.I. give you over a good carb .
EVERYTHING, EVERYTIME!!!!...lol

My reason for going efi was the 041 cam in my 10.5:1 iron headed 400! and i LOVE q-jets. When it was a daily driver,,,,you would spend the first 5 minutes pat, pat, pat on the gas so it would stay running, then (due to the fine tuning required to run too much compression with iron heads) depending on if is "wet" outside as to how bad it ran. The EFI allowed ME to put enough in it when its cold that it would actually stay running.....AND not be loaded up when it its warm. I could also INFINITELY adjust the AFR to the cylinders a little wet (not pig RICH) while "cruising" at low throttle.

Something else for the OP.....most stuff has been mentioned; however, one other point to make about EFI is your charging system MUST BE AWESOME!! rock solid voltage is a MUST for efi to perform correctly. So if you have NOT upgraded to at least a cs130 or 144.....this would be the time.

  #26  
Old 09-07-2021, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Formulajones View Post
That's why I mentioned they have only worked okay for me with stock or very mild setups, most likely because the pumps in those applications weren't all that big. I also run a 400 lph in my own, and I just swapped in a 450 lph in dad's car.

It's not overly difficult these days to make 500hp or more with most any brand engine with just bolt on parts. In which case I would not recommend the corvette style filter/regulator. It would be time to step up to a good size feed and return, with a good regulator, preferably close to the engine, and a big enough pump capable of supplying the HP being made.
Im using this guy https://www.efisystempro.com/fuel-sy...75-876-888-889

They want $40 for the mounting rings. Im trying to figure out a good way to do it cheaper. Right now I have rubber P clamps around the line on either end. But I dont like it long term.

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  #27  
Old 09-07-2021, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Dragncar View Post
In the end, what will F.I. give you over a good carb .
If you're good with a carb and know the ins and outs, not all that much if you stick with the throttle body EFI's.

I'm still a carb guy at heart and decades of playing with them I've learned a lot. What a lot of people find funny is that our 2 daily drivers are still carb, one Holley and one Q-jet, and they do everything perfectly. I only have the EFI stuff on the cars we play with.

The throttle body EFI's are okay. It's nice to be able to go in and pick an AFR you want for a particular cell and fine tune different areas of throttle and rpm. It's more difficult to do that with a carb and gets time consuming but it's doable, just not as precise. Probably the best thing I like about EFI is the self tuning and it's ability to sense and adjust for elevation changes. That's what really sold me on the throttle body EFI. We deal with so much elevation change here that you really just have to find a happy spot with the carb and leave it. The EFI keeps that AFR pretty steady no matter where I'm at. Nice when we go to the track that's near sea level and most of our driving is a mile up. Other than that there really isn't a big difference over a carb.

The multi port fuel injection systems have more advantages over a throttle body unit. Better fuel shot right at the back of the valve is one. The ability to tune individual cylinders is another big one that I like.

It just depends on what you're looking for and what you're willing to dive into.

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Old 09-07-2021, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by RocktimusPryme View Post
Im using this guy https://www.efisystempro.com/fuel-sy...75-876-888-889

They want $40 for the mounting rings. Im trying to figure out a good way to do it cheaper. Right now I have rubber P clamps around the line on either end. But I dont like it long term.
That's an interesting piece. Haven't seen that yet.

I use Chris at EFI System Pro for all the EFI stuff we have. Bought both Sniper units from him and all the add on goodies as well. He has treated me good and gave me discounts for buying multiple units at once. He's been a big help in the tuning aspect of things as well and has been excellent support. Way better than dealing with Holley directly.

On that filter regulator combo, I haven't found a cheap way to do this stuff, lol. On the regulators, I always use the 13301 Aeromotive regulator because it does 2 things I wanted. It's vacuum referenced and that comes in handy if you really get heavy into tuning the system, and it also has the ability to switch back and forth from carb pressure to EFI pressure with a swap of the spring. I've used it for years with a carb before the EFI switch so that part was easy.

The filter deal, I've struggled with options there for a while and eventually settled on this.....
https://www.amazon.com/RUSSELL-65013.../dp/B0014BDEGG

Not necessarily this particular one but it's this style. They open up and have a stainless mesh screen that can be cleaned and reused, and you can change the micron ratings by swapping the screen if you wish (finer micron for EFI) They are alcohol compatible and they flow enough to support 1000 hp, also come in -6 and -8 sizes and probably larger. Best part is they are only ~$25 and you never have to buy another filter again.

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  #29  
Old 09-07-2021, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by 67Fbird View Post
EVERYTHING, EVERYTIME!!!!...lol

My reason for going efi was the 041 cam in my 10.5:1 iron headed 400! and i LOVE q-jets. When it was a daily driver,,,,you would spend the first 5 minutes pat, pat, pat on the gas so it would stay running, then (due to the fine tuning required to run too much compression with iron heads) depending on if is "wet" outside as to how bad it ran. The EFI allowed ME to put enough in it when its cold that it would actually stay running.....AND not be loaded up when it its warm. I could also INFINITELY adjust the AFR to the cylinders a little wet (not pig RICH) while "cruising" at low throttle.

Something else for the OP.....most stuff has been mentioned; however, one other point to make about EFI is your charging system MUST BE AWESOME!! rock solid voltage is a MUST for efi to perform correctly. So if you have NOT upgraded to at least a cs130 or 144.....this would be the time.
I've heard that before on the charging system deal but never experienced any issues myself. Both cars still have bone stock charging systems with external voltage regulators with stock output alternators, and they both have been flawless in that department for over a year now using the Holley Super Sniper Stealth units.
But I'm guessing it has a lot to do with wiring, isolating everything properly and having good grounds.

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  #30  
Old 09-07-2021, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Formulajones View Post
That's an interesting piece. Haven't seen that yet.

I use Chris at EFI System Pro for all the EFI stuff we have. Bought both Sniper units from him and all the add on goodies as well. He has treated me good and gave me discounts for buying multiple units at once. He's been a big help in the tuning aspect of things as well and has been excellent support. Way better than dealing with Holley directly.

On that filter regulator combo, I haven't found a cheap way to do this stuff, lol. On the regulators, I always use the 13301 Aeromotive regulator because it does 2 things I wanted. It's vacuum referenced and that comes in handy if you really get heavy into tuning the system, and it also has the ability to switch back and forth from carb pressure to EFI pressure with a swap of the spring. I've used it for years with a carb before the EFI switch so that part was easy.

.
Yeah, I actually found the system cheaper at a show but decided to use EFIsystsemspros because they have such a stellar service reputation.

I thought the filter/regulator was actually pretty fairly priced at 120 for the cast unit. Its the $40 for mounting brackets that I balk at.

I havent bought the hyperspark stuff yet to control timing. Chris told me that if the car runs well now, Holley actually recommends you get the EFI up and going with your current ignition setup. One less thing that can go wrong during initial startup. You dont have to remove the distributor, you know the timing is right etc. After you get the EFI going then you can swap in the spark control items.

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  #31  
Old 09-07-2021, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by RocktimusPryme View Post
Yeah, I actually found the system cheaper at a show but decided to use EFIsystsemspros because they have such a stellar service reputation.

I thought the filter/regulator was actually pretty fairly priced at 120 for the cast unit. Its the $40 for mounting brackets that I balk at.

I havent bought the hyperspark stuff yet to control timing. Chris told me that if the car runs well now, Holley actually recommends you get the EFI up and going with your current ignition setup. One less thing that can go wrong during initial startup. You dont have to remove the distributor, you know the timing is right etc. After you get the EFI going then you can swap in the spark control items.
I'd have to have it in my hands but I tend to think there are probably multiple ways one could come up with to mount it....???

That is exactly correct about the ignition side of things. I've done the exact same thing on both cars here. Got the EFI systems on both cars first. Both cars have rock solid MSD setups that have been flawless for over 20 years, with boxes etc.... that I just didn't want to mess with.

So I put the EFI systems on both cars, very straight forward install, and left the ignition systems alone.
The plan was to eventually convert them both over to control ignition with the EFI unit. The MSD's are capable as is by just locking out the distributor and swapping a few wires around so I don't necessarily have to buy anything on the ignition side to make it work. Funny thing is after over a year on both cars I haven't changed either one. They both run so well as is I'm just not sure at this point if I should, or will, change the ignition.

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Old 09-07-2021, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by NeighborsComplaint View Post
Well, I bit the bullet and scrounged for some deals on an EFI setup. I wound up a with a refurbed Holley Sniper from the Holley store for $400 less than retail, an in-tank pump retrofit kit w. Walbro pump and baffled tray, a braided PTFE hose kit w. AN fittings and a Wix 33737 filter regulator w. return.

The plan is to mount the regulator where my current Holley red pump is currently located ( just ahead and below the tank) and use my existing 3/8" fuel line. The supply and return (short lines) will be plumbed w. PTFE as well as the supply line to the throttle body. I will also swap out my ProComp dual plane intake for a Torker II I bought a while back.

I am going to try to retain my old mechanical pump to carb hard line and picked up the compression to AN fittings to do this just to maintain a "stock-ish" appearance. I just have to come up with a bracket to secure the end of the hard line coming off one of the fuel pump block-off plate bolts. My tank and fuel lines are only a couple years old so I decided to retain them and do the retrofit rather than purchase a new tank.

I have seen them plumbed this way but something tells me I should locate the regulator closer to the throttle body using the high pressure on the long supply run and regulated pressure on the short run to the throttle body. I have 3/8" supply & 5/16" return hard lines in the stock location (both are new) and could just as easily mount the filter/regulator right on the frame rail and plumb to my supply and return.

For you guys that have done this type of install, which way did you go?
Hope you will update on your progress/results, what things worked for you and what did not. I started this same conversion in the early spring but got stalled and the hot summers here make working in the garage a total no-go. I plan to get back to it in a couple of months once the temps have backed off the triple digits and have my car ready for the pleasant winter temps here.

  #33  
Old 09-07-2021, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by NeighborsComplaint View Post

I am going to try to retain my old mechanical pump to carb hard line and picked up the compression to AN fittings to do this just to maintain a "stock-ish" appearance.
You really shouldn't use compression fittings on anything on a car. If this is something you really want you can use flare fittings instead. Just a suggestion...

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  #34  
Old 09-07-2021, 07:30 PM
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This is a shot of the Vette filter mounted. As Frankie notes, compression fitting have no place in high pressure fuel lines. I used a flare tool to bubble the ends of the hardline and used high pressure clamps for lines under pressure. The vent lines get normal screw type clamps. Much cheaper than AN fittings!

The snap-lock elbows are Dorman units.


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Old 09-07-2021, 08:17 PM
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Or brake lines...They are not SAE approved for anything.

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  #36  
Old 09-07-2021, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Scarebird View Post
This is a shot of the Vette filter mounted. As Frankie notes, compression fitting have no place in high pressure fuel lines. I used a flare tool to bubble the ends of the hardline and used high pressure clamps for lines under pressure. The vent lines get normal screw type clamps. Much cheaper than AN fittings!

The snap-lock elbows are Dorman units.


That's about what I had in mind. I have the nylon braided PTFE hose kit that came with all the AN6 fittings so I'll just use them. I've found it a pain to do flares on hard lines already on the car with limited space to work in. I made all my brake lines and flared them but In my experience with plumbing of all kinds, I don't have a problem using a compression fitting.

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Old 09-08-2021, 12:32 PM
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One large pool of real life experiences, if you have local car shows like I do, to visit, walk around, yak it up with others there and get their experiences.

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Old 09-08-2021, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RocktimusPryme View Post
I’m using the holley 59.5 psi filter/regulator. Same concept but a beefier package to the oem type pumps.

Lots of horror stories about the factory C5 type regulators getting overpowered by more powerful fuel pumps. I have a 400 lph pump.
Yes, the 340Lph and up pumps will just crush the filter media. The C5 setup is only recommended for the 255Lph pump application which is where I'm at. This is more that adequate for the HP level (Est 400-450Hp) I am at. I think anything more would be overkill or insurance depending on your mindset.

The kid who who is going to help do this install, his dad does these installs all the time for Midwest Musclecars in Lake Zurich, IL. He uses the Sniper or Tanks, Inc. unit with the 255Lph pump or the supplied inline pump on Sniper and Fitech converted BBC applications and LS swaps of 500+Hp with no issues. He only uses the larger capacity pumps and filters for multiple throttle body applications or high HP/race applications with higher capacity (800-1500 Hp) throttle bodies.

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  #39  
Old 09-08-2021, 09:46 PM
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I got a tanks inc setup from a guy locally who had it in a turbo 67 camaro. So yeah the pump may be overkill, but it’s fine.

I installed my lines in the rear yesterday and removed my Q jet. Removed the old full return line. I’ll attack it harder over the weekend. Had to drop the tank partially to install the lines.

Word of advice for anyone doing an in tank pump. They are awesome. Totally the way to go, but install a trap door in the trunk to be able to reach the lines and service the pump if necessary. If I ever take it all the way out again I’ll do that. Wasn’t about to fire up the cutting wheel over a 3/4 full tank though.

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Old 09-08-2021, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RocktimusPryme View Post
I got a tanks inc setup from a guy locally who had it in a turbo 67 camaro. So yeah the pump may be overkill, but it’s fine.

I installed my lines in the rear yesterday and removed my Q jet. Removed the old full return line. I’ll attack it harder over the weekend. Had to drop the tank partially to install the lines.

Word of advice for anyone doing an in tank pump. They are awesome. Totally the way to go, but install a trap door in the trunk to be able to reach the lines and service the pump if necessary. If I ever take it all the way out again I’ll do that. Wasn’t about to fire up the cutting wheel over a 3/4 full tank though.
That is a great idea.

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