[AG]

What is the intake centerline of the installed cam? That will answer your question.

[Murf]

Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012

ok for now i am stuck with this cam and i have the option to set the cam at 2-4-6-8- degrees at the crank . what should i set it at or should i just put it back straight up as it was before?

When you use the term “straight up” do you mean your decreeing it to the manufacturers recommend ICL or do you meet “ dot to dot” on the timing gears?

When you talk about advancing the cam X degrees are you decreeing it or just putting in 2-4-6-8 degree keys?


Murf

[67Fbird]

Going with a typical timing chain and gear.....when the "dots" point to eachother is where MOST refer to as "straight up". That is all wonderful and fine but without actually degree'ing in the camshaft that is a MOOT conversation. You either degree it in and know or you pot shot it and guess?

Will it run? YES. Will advancing 4 degrees from WHERE IT USED TO BE bring the power band lower in the RPM? Who knows as you do not really know where it was. If it was already in at 106 and you move it 4 degrees --> 102 degrees CL....probably going to LOSE power EVERYWHERE but yes it will run.

[Steve C.]

Another tid bit to consider. If one is going by a cam companies printed material with the description of a "power range" or "RPM operating range" it's generic information.
Too many variables involved.

[Jay S]

FWIW, I hope you took time to degree the cam in when using the advance keys on the multi key time set. That 8 degree crank multi key compcams timing set is marked for it’s reference from the cam timing. Using the 8 key the advance is meant to move the intake center line from 113 to 105…. A full 8 degrees, not 4.

[U47]

Originally Posted by padgett

Just my opinion but have a 744 cam in my 4-speed/AC 400. For more cubes I'd go to a 041.

In a stock application think about why the factory never installed a 041 or a smaller 744 in a 428 or 455. Think about RPM limits and those cams usefulness.

[Tom Vaught]

Not 100% sure but believe the only place where the 390 hp engine was used was in the 428 Grand Prix.
The Grand Prix was a real boat and a great number of them were NEVER raced at the track.
No need for the cam to be bigger than the 068 camshaft for that application.

Installing the 428 engine/parts in a A-Body vehicle or F-Bird, is another story, imo.

Tom V.

[tc]

I have a 428 and an 041 cam.

I only used the 041 cam because I had it for years, just sitting there. I race with it and it's pretty much a dog the last 1/8 mile of the 1/4 mile run, 5000-5700 rpm. The 60ft is great, 1.65 seconds. Degree it and Install it at 109

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

What is the intake center line of the installed cam? That will answer your question.

I got this information off the net, this may or may not be what Melling built into my 041 cam. I Never received a cam card. I bought this 041 cam from Melling through Butler and was told to install it straight up.

Here is what I found on the net and if this is the only way the 041 cam can be manufactured then here we go : 308/320 231/240 366 hp/5500 rpm 445 lb ft /3900 rpm OL 87 LSA 13.5 IC 112

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

FWIW, I hope you took time to degree the cam in when using the advance keys on the multi key time set. That 8 degree crank multi key comp cams timing set is marked for it’s reference from the cam timing. Using the 8 key the advance is meant to move the intake center line from 113 to 105…. A full 8 degrees, not 4.

The advance timing chain and gear has not been run or started up yet in the car, this is the purpose of this thread I started , so I don't destroy a good running motor with my inexperience. I was under the impression that 8 degrees at the crank is equal to 4 degrees at the cam. I never used a degree wheel yet in my life.

This is a stock motor and ran perfect with the last cam and also with this 041 cam. The only reason I am even thinking of moving the power band toward the launch is that I thought I could. I am thinking of putting the gear back on the original setting with no advance. If some one thinks I can benefit some by moving 2 degrees at the crank for a one degree advance at the cam please advise so.

Whoever said to go back to the original cam has the best idea yet, that was my original thought, however since I all ready have this 041 cam installed should I be maybe getting the Rhoads variable lifters and 1.6:1 rockers like others do . Going back to the former cam is going backward toward a smaller cam.

What do I do to get better performance out of the 041 cam that is in the car now. I have new Johnson lifters in the motor now and HD Chromemolly push rods and 7/16" screw in HD rocker studs from Butler. What advantage can I gain with Rhoads Variable Lifters in my street driven vehicle anyway? I don"t want to waste money.

Back in the day Royal Pontiac would shim under the valve springs and use Distributor curve kits and copper head gaskets etc... I do have the air induction Ram air pan with foam seal under the Tri power carbs. and cool air is just what this engine loves. I Installed a Trans Am Scoop near the windshield for working air induction on the 1976 formula hood.at one time I took the snorkels out to let air in to carbs and to cool off the headers but I don't have to do that any more. I brought down the engine temperature in other ways.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Going with a typical timing chain and gear.....when the "dots" point to eachother is where MOST refer to as "straight up". That is all wonderful and fine but without actually degree'ing in the camshaft that is a MOOT conversation. You either degree it in and know or you pot shot it and guess?

Will it run? = YES

Will advancing 4 degrees from WHERE IT USED TO BE bring the power band lower in the RPM? Who knows as you do not really know where it was. If it was already in at 106 and you move it 4 degrees --> 102* degrees CL....probably going to LOSE power EVERYWHERE but yes it will run.

We put the dots at 12 o'clock each first, that is straight up as Melling would have me install the gears. Melling took all the guess work out of the installation. Then we set the advance at 8 degrees at the crank and that is equal to 4 degrees at the cam. Am I wrong in my thinking? Please be advised I am learning here, so if I am wrong correct me please. We have not started the engine yet and won't until we are sure what to do. I have no experience in degreeing cams but I have seen the procedure on videos, just need to buy the tool wheel set up.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

When you use the term “straight up” do you mean your decreeing it to the manufacturers recommend ICL or do you mean “dot to dot” on the timing gears?

When you talk about advancing the cam X degrees are you degreeing it or just putting in 2-4-6-8 degree keys?

I have not used a degree wheel yet, but would like to learn. I first ran the 041 cam for a couple years as Melling had me set it up with no advance. The cam dots are both at 12 o'clock at top dead center compression stroke.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Are you stuck on the 041 cam? maybe step down to a smaller cam to move the torque curve where you want it.

Yes for now, the future is not here yet.

Lets say I Install the 041 cam with the dots both on 12 o'clock - "straight-up". Since the 041 cam is installed now, I will consider options on improvements that will gain some performance if there are any to be had. Maybe some day I will go back to the former cam but not now.

The question now is if I were to install the 1.6:1 rockers, with inexpensive rollers on them and maybe Rhoads variable lifters, what would be the performance gains on street use, if any?

Engine specs are thus: 376 hp factory, guess by me is as much as 428 hp with real air induction adds 35 hp plus headers and dual exhaust. I upgraded to the 041 cam already. It's never been dyno'd. It has a TH400 transmission with a B&M shift kit, Gear Vendors over under drive, and Herb Adams suspension all around with Koni shocks for handling. vFour wheel Disc Brakes and Posi-Traction. Lowered by two inches and race suspension. There are 3.23 gears in the rear end. At about 3000 rpm I run 80 mph in overdrive.

[tc]

Without knowing what heads, stock or ported, compression ratio, I think you may be expecting too much performance from the 041 cam. The changes you want to make to move power around is probably only going to give less power everywhere. The 041 cam is not the cam to look at those drag race charts about moving the ICL to change the power band rpm. If you are not going to degree it, install it dot to dot.

Using 1.65 ratio rockers to add more lift is a good way to increase power, especially with the small lift the 041 has. Then you will need to check the roller tip pattern on your valves and purchase the proper length pushrods.

As mentioned in your other thread with the same title, I use the 041 cam, but it down on power compared to my old cam that had less duration and more lift.

[U47]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Not 100% sure but believe the only place where the 390 hp engine was used was in the 428 Grand Prix.
The Grand Prix was a real boat and a great number of them were NEVER raced at the track.
No need for the cam to be bigger than the 068 camshaft for that application.

Installing the 428 engine/parts in a A-Body vehicle or F-Bird, is another story, imo.

Tom V.

Pontiac, all and G/P in 1968,
Pontiac P/Hwy, and G/P 1969
You are correct about the 068 in a stock bottom end configuration.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

As yet I have not seen a comment on degreeing the cam. The cam card will state where the intake center line should be. Just picking an amount to advance the cam is not proper. Hopefully one of the various engine builders will better assist you.

I bought the cam from Melling through Butler. Melling made the cam to be installed "straight up", I installed the cam @ 12 o'clock both dots. I have no experience with the degree wheel yet although I have watched videos on the topic. I have driven this cam for a few years now and find that I prefer the former cam, the original 524886.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Right now I have an 800 CFM QJ on mine. At various times I have had dual quad AFBs and 66 tri-powers. Secret to decent MPG is in the progressive linkage & tri-power is best with a single large oval air cleaner as used on B-bodies. Little A93C pots are terrible.

I would like to try the twin 4 bbl, sounds like the best and racers used that setup. Tri-power is sexy and looks the best and when those secondaries come on you can't beat that feeling especially when the #524886 cam that is installed that is made for the Tri-power set-up. I use mechanical linkage, stay away from that vacuum linkage system.

[U47]

Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012

In a stock application think about why the factory never installed a 041 or a smaller 744 in a 428 or 455. Think about RPM limits and those cams usefulness.MIKES ANSWER FOR THIS : PONTIAC almost put the 041 in the 455 sd if I read rite. and the 744 was in the few 455 sd or just 455 I believe.

The 73-74 SD could handle a 041 but the 041 was never used.
The 744 was never in a 455 or a 428.
What was in the 73-74 SD "only" was the 493323 cam which specs out the same as the 744. But the 323 cam has a special small gear to accommodate the large distributor gear.

[Jay S]

I think you had the right idea with the 4 degrees of advance for your set up. Use the +4 advance key instead of the +8.

[lust4speed]

TRADER MIKE 2012, you are saying that you feel that the 041 cam is larger than you like. If this is true, then you do not want to install higher ratio rockers because that will make the cam feel slightly larger and the opposite way you are saying you want to go. 1.65 Ratio rockers increase lift 10% and marginally increases duration. I'd say about another 4° but that is subject to discussion. Regardless, if you are thinking you want a smaller cam then you don't want to go with higher ratio rockers.

It's been years since we burned up a bunch of dyno time moving around the ICL, but every time we moved the ICL either advanced or retarded the net result was usually a loss of overall power. If we advanced the cam we would pick up 5 horsepower down low but loose 20 up on top. Reverse the procedure and retard the cam and pick up some on top and loose even more down on the bottom. We finally had to admit that the cam manufacturers actually knew what they were doing when they set their specs.