Pontiac - Race The next Level

          
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Old 11-06-2023, 01:20 PM
RBAILEY RBAILEY is offline
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Default Using lifter bore oil restrictrs on solid roller lifters w/pressure fed pin oiling

I have this question and thought I saw a thread on this somewhere.

Most major suppliers/manufactures of roller lifters have been offering solid roller lifters with pressure fed oiling to the needles bearings under the roller wheel for some time now.

My understanding is that the intention of this design feature is to improve oiling to the needle bearings and thus improve durability and life span of the roller lifter.

My understanding of the old Pontiac practice of using orificed set screw restrictors pertained only to solid lifters and not hydraulic lifters and that the reason for this must be that solids/mechanical lifters provide too much free flow of oil too the pushrod whereas hydraulics through their design restrict that oil and meter a more proper amount of oil up through the pushrod that wouldn't risk leaving the oil sump dry.

Now my question about using restrictors with the new generation of pressure fed needle bearing under the roller wheel of solid roller lifters:

Doesn't using restrictors negate the benefit of having pressure fed needle bearing oiling in the lifter body and doesn't this new feature in the lifter drain off some of the oil that would go up through the pushrod? I mean if they went through all the trouble to make a lifter that taps pressurized oil and diverts a tiny bit of it to a critical area aren't we defeating that intended purpose/benefit to that very critical area by severely restricting that oil source to the needles with a tiny .030 or whatever hole. And should we instead look for better ways to improve drain-back to the sump when using larger solid roller cam on the street or drag n drive deals.

One thing I noticed on aftermarket heads is that oil drain-back compared to a stock head is dismal as it only has small drilled oil return holes and an occupied pushrod hole with no open casting voids to the crankcase like factory heads have.

But back to keeping focus on the restrictors and whether or not we are defeating the purpose of pressure fed axle oiling on roller lifters?

What do you all say/think?


Last edited by RBAILEY; 11-06-2023 at 01:37 PM.
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Old 11-06-2023, 02:17 PM
mgarblik mgarblik is offline
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We ran a .030" restrictor in each lifter bore in all our race engines for nearly 30 years. That includes the following types of lifters. All solid roller lifters, Crower branded, .842", .903", .937 diameter tie bar. Needle bearing style and bushing style. Also Crane Branded and Morel branded needle bearing style. Valve spring pressures as high as 500 lbs. on the seat and 1100 lbs open. 8500 RPM typical max engine speed. No lifter or general valvetrain failures related to lubrication issues. You would just be amazed how much oil can get through 16 holes of .030" diameter. BTW, we did run pin oilers in most of the lifters once that option became available. Pontiac engines put a HUGE amount of oil to the top of the engine. Especially worrisome at high RPM. The main and rod bearings need a constant supply of non-aerated oil much more than the valvetrain running at 1/2 speed. That has been our experience anyway. BTW, if you decide to run restrictors, I can make you a set with .030" or .040" holes in the. I have drills for both. PM me if interested. Good luck.

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Old 11-06-2023, 02:50 PM
Dragncar Dragncar is offline
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I have run .030 restrictors forever and have not hurt anything.
I drilled my own in SS plugs before. The last time I just bought pre drilled brass ones from KRE, 30 $
Harbor Freight always has a cheap set of metric drill bits in stock. There are some in the set that come in at .031" and will work fine. But you will need a pin vice for the little drill bits. You can get them for 10$ on Amazon. Most have a little knob on the end that spins. You can just cut it off and put what is left in your drill and go to work.

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Old 11-06-2023, 04:03 PM
RBAILEY RBAILEY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragncar View Post
I have run .030 restrictors forever and have not hurt anything.
I drilled my own in SS plugs before. The last time I just bought pre drilled brass ones from KRE, 30 $
Harbor Freight always has a cheap set of metric drill bits in stock. There are some in the set that come in at .031" and will work fine. But you will need a pin vice for the little drill bits. You can get them for 10$ on Amazon. Most have a little knob on the end that spins. You can just cut it off and put what is left in your drill and go to work.
Do you run a solid roller with 760 lift on the street?

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Old 11-06-2023, 04:04 PM
RBAILEY RBAILEY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgarblik View Post
We ran a .030" restrictor in each lifter bore in all our race engines for nearly 30 years. That includes the following types of lifters. All solid roller lifters, Crower branded, .842", .903", .937 diameter tie bar. Needle bearing style and bushing style. Also Crane Branded and Morel branded needle bearing style. Valve spring pressures as high as 500 lbs. on the seat and 1100 lbs open. 8500 RPM typical max engine speed. No lifter or general valvetrain failures related to lubrication issues. You would just be amazed how much oil can get through 16 holes of .030" diameter. BTW, we did run pin oilers in most of the lifters once that option became available. Pontiac engines put a HUGE amount of oil to the top of the engine. Especially worrisome at high RPM. The main and rod bearings need a constant supply of non-aerated oil much more than the valvetrain running at 1/2 speed. That has been our experience anyway. BTW, if you decide to run restrictors, I can make you a set with .030" or .040" holes in the. I have drills for both. PM me if interested. Good luck.
thank you for the offer on the restrictors... the engine currently has them in place.

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Old 11-06-2023, 05:56 PM
Dragncar Dragncar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RBAILEY View Post
Do you run a solid roller with 760 lift on the street?
That cam got toned down to .732 lift, net .715
I don't run it on the street, but you could with a BIG exhaust system.
Its a pump gas bracket engine, have not made a full pass yet.
Just took it down a unprepared track a couple times to set the rings.
Did not come close to hooking it up.

  #7  
Old 11-06-2023, 06:20 PM
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Mr Twister Mr Twister is offline
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I don't have long tern experience with this. I got restricted pushrods from Butler Performance for my roller cammed 400. I asked for .030 (as a recommended restrictor size from the old HO racing book) and was told that they stock and use .040 for their builds like mine. The .040 were purchased and installed. The engine has good oil pressure and what I feel is adequate top end oiling.

Street engine, my goal was to keep it below 600 HP, closer to 500. Best I can figure 9.9 to 1 CR

-69 400 block +.060 2 bolt with Studs, short fill with Pontiac Dudes filler
-Stock crank .010/.020
-PPR Ultra Lite Rods
-ICON -14 cc dished pistons and Total seal Moly rings gapped for spray.
-72cc E Heads CNC ported to 325 by SD Performance. Upgraded to 2.19/1.77 valves.
-Crane Solid Roller 236/244 @50 1:65 rockers making about .600 lift, degreed straight up.
-Warrior Intake
-Milodon 8 QT pan, crank scraper, windage tray M-54-DS pump (60 lb)
-GMPP 502ZZ EFI wiring harness with MEFI 4a PCM, Fast dual sync distributor and a Fast 4150 1000cfm Throttle body with (4) 100 lb injectors.
-Heddman Hustler stepped headers
-I built a test stand and it fired right up and idles well with the small SR cam. After I run it a little, it will go to the dyno at Smittys Engine and Trans in Vasser, MI for tuning as smitty is a master at tuning the MEFI system. I used the MEFI because I am familiar wth it from a couple boats I had. Its not as good as the new stuff but adequate.

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Old 11-07-2023, 11:51 AM
RBAILEY RBAILEY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragncar View Post
That cam got toned down to .732 lift, net .715
I don't run it on the street, but you could with a BIG exhaust system.
Its a pump gas bracket engine, have not made a full pass yet.
Just took it down a unprepared track a couple times to set the rings.
Did not come close to hooking it up.
Nice cant wait to hear how it runs.

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Old 11-07-2023, 11:14 PM
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leeklm leeklm is offline
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"You would just be amazed how much oil can get through 16 holes of .030" diameter"

I ended up with holes closer to .040. Put 30w oil in the pan and turned the pump with drill to watch oil come out of restrictors- within a second I had oil on the 9ft ceiling lol. So yes, for sure moving a lot of oil when hot!

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

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Old 11-08-2023, 07:18 AM
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I've made a small chuck out of a old dremel tool.

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Old 11-08-2023, 07:18 AM
sdbob sdbob is online now
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I've made a small chuck out of a old non working dremel tool.

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Old 11-08-2023, 04:23 PM
Dragncar Dragncar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RBAILEY View Post
Nice cant wait to hear how it runs.
Thanks, this engine has been a LONG haul for sure.
This spring I will finish breaking it in at the track and see how it runs with a HP 850 on it. Make sure the car stops, no leaks ect.
Then I will put a HP 1000 on it and see how that does.
Then try the 1050 if I do not get close to 9s with the HP 1000.

  #13  
Old 11-13-2023, 03:40 PM
RBAILEY RBAILEY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragncar View Post
Thanks, this engine has been a LONG haul for sure.
This spring I will finish breaking it in at the track and see how it runs with a HP 850 on it. Make sure the car stops, no leaks ect.
Then I will put a HP 1000 on it and see how that does.
Then try the 1050 if I do not get close to 9s with the HP 1000.
break-in?

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Old 11-13-2023, 04:01 PM
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Years ago I bought a set of oil galley pugs with the one by the distributor pre drilled by Warrior. When I pre oiled man a LOT of oil-Hole was 0.060! popped out back plug and peened it a little smaller.

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Old 11-13-2023, 04:55 PM
Dragncar Dragncar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RBAILEY View Post
break-in?
Yes, no dyno for me. Have to seat the rings in under load.
I know the track tech guy, old friend and he opened up the track for me to do some break in-testing.
Just no full high speed passes. No safety crew was there.

  #16  
Old 11-13-2023, 05:36 PM
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Dragncar, did Samoa run a program this year?

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Old 11-13-2023, 11:08 PM
Dragncar Dragncar is offline
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Dragncar, did Samoa run a program this year?
Oh yeah, currently we are trying to keep the track 1/4 mile.
There are some folks who want to run 1/8 mile only.
Redding went to 1/8th mile and Brookings OR has a 1/8th mile track.
Sacramento is done so we are hopping for more racers from down there coming up..
We had a reality show come in and do a episode. Roadkill maybe ? I have not watched it.

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Old 11-14-2023, 02:39 PM
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Brookings, OR has an 1/8 mile? I was unaware.

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Old 11-14-2023, 11:17 PM
Dragncar Dragncar is offline
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Quote:
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Brookings, OR has an 1/8 mile? I was unaware.
Its Coos Bay, just up the road from Brookings.
Sorry about that, my friend from Brookings races there.

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Old 11-15-2023, 01:16 PM
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No worries.

I thought I knew the Oregon Coast quite well and the Brooking's dragstrip reference caught me.

The Coos Bay facility is a small strip but they are lucky to have such; esp. on the coast as you know in Samoa. I guess for your friend it may be easier to drive up the coast (101) than to hit Medford Dragway. The latter is a decent 1/4 mile facility with a great uphill shutdown that makes it very easy on the brakes.

All good.

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