#21  
Old 11-03-2023, 08:31 PM
Formulas Formulas is offline
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Hard to tell exactly from a borescope picture on a cell phone but my spidey sences tell me that hone does look a bit course

are you confident the piston rings are installed properly?

  #22  
Old 11-03-2023, 09:17 PM
mgarblik mgarblik is offline
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Unless your running a roller cam, I would use a mineral oil with plenty of ZZDP in the formulation for your flat tappet cam and lifters. . You don't need expensive designer oil IMO.

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Old 11-03-2023, 09:54 PM
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I am concerned about those vertical scratches showing in the bore.

How many cylinders have that ?

Those, number one show that the ends of all the rings where never deburred ( even the oil ring rails) and the ends of the rings can get caught in those scratches and then the rings will not rotate in there grooves as they should and that will lead to the rings not cleaning out the groove.

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Old 11-04-2023, 09:02 AM
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It is a solid roller cam. I did file fit the rings and deburred them. A problem maybe have been from using the band style piston installer?

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Old 11-04-2023, 03:36 PM
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Unless a ring was broken during installation, the compressor style should not be an issue. Did they all push into the bore without any issue? If yes, should be OK there. How much total time, or mileage is on it since the refresh? What ring package did you install? Low tension oil rings?

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Old 11-05-2023, 10:53 AM
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Everything went together smooth. Probably less than 60 miles on it. I used total seal classic race ring pack. Pretty sure 20lb oil rings. I did just run the sea foam through it and ran it hard afterwards and I want to say the oil is less on the pistons and out the exhaust and the yellow on cylinder walls is going away. Total seal told me to try running the cleaner. I may run another can through it.

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Old 11-05-2023, 06:46 PM
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This last engine I did ended up without a hint of smoke. What I did was put some Lucas on the skirts of the pistons but the cylinder walls and ring areas of the pistons I used a conventional 30WT diesel oil with all of its detergents. The crankcase got conventional non detergent break in oil.
Happy with the results.
But I thought when I bought a fancy non adjustable tapper-d ring compressor it did not seem right. 4.155 bore and 4.155 tool but the fit was lose and the rings hit the block trying to use it.
I went to my trusty Summit ring tool with the big hose clamp. The tool has tapper and you could fit it very snugly to the piston and tap them into the block without worrying about breaking a ring like the fixed tool.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sme-90a4120

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Old 11-05-2023, 07:57 PM
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I had a 4.181 solid alum. tapered ring compressor for a while but on one block i was working on there was a small chamfer at the top of the bore and the skinny oil rail would expand in this area and cause to much force to be needed to sink my pistons so i went back to the old wrap up steel band compressor as it holds onto the rings a bit later

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Old 11-19-2023, 07:59 PM
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Im still getting the oil on top of my pistons. My spark plugs look really good though, Not wet at all. Does this indicate the oil is entering from the rings? How much more time should I put into trying to seat these rings before I pull this thing apart?

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Old 11-19-2023, 09:42 PM
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By now (2 weeks) I'd be pulling it apart and inspecting/measuring valve seals, stems and guides. Even if I found the smoking gun up top somewhere, I'd be pulling apart and inspecting the rings and pistons for peace of mind.

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Old 11-20-2023, 07:37 AM
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Unless you want to buy a leak down tester to use and if blocking off the pcv hose made no change, then unfortunately it's time to tare the motor down and get a 320 grit ball hone to make some 4 passes on each cylinder Bore with, or take it to shop for a rehone job

In terms of lubing Pistons and breaking in rings I have for over 4 decades used just a light coat of oil on the piston skirts and for the cylinder walls I have used a coat of ATF that I have wiped off with a rag to the point where the walls only had a slight shine to them, and I have never had a ring break in issue.

Actually with some ring types the manufacturer wants them to run on a dry wall for break in.

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Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs!
And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs!

1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set.

Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks.

1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes.
Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph.

Education is what your left with once you forget things!
  #32  
Old 11-22-2023, 06:25 AM
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I just ran a leak down on all cylinders with the engine cold

1) 4% 2) 4%
3) 4% 4) 4%
5) 5% 6) 4%
7) 5% 8) 4%

These numbers look really good to me. Can my rings be sealing on that glaze but the oil still make it past?


Last edited by spectramitch; 11-22-2023 at 06:34 AM.
  #33  
Old 11-22-2023, 06:51 AM
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Well here are some other possibilities.

Did you maybe not stager the oil ring rail gaps 180 degrees apart and they are lined up over each other?

The second ring which also preforms oil scraping duty was put on upside down, or there have been cases where they where just plain marked wrong for what the top side is.

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Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs!
And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs!

1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set.

Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks.

1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes.
Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph.

Education is what your left with once you forget things!
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  #34  
Old 11-22-2023, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve25 View Post
Well here are some other possibilities.

Did you maybe not stager the oil ring rail gaps 180 degrees apart and they are lined up over each other?

The second ring which also preforms oil scraping duty was put on upside down, or there have been cases where they where just plain marked wrong for what the top side is.
I definitely staggered the rings and installed them with markings up. So If they were labeled wrong it would have to be every single one? Its kind of hard to believe but I guess it is possible.

  #35  
Old 11-22-2023, 08:01 AM
bluegoat65 bluegoat65 is offline
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From your pics of the intake ports, I really thought it was the rocker studs. Did they seal after the last attempt? The reason I say that is because you stated the oiling was less after. maybe a relook into.

  #36  
Old 11-22-2023, 09:00 AM
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Check the umbrella Valve seals to see them riding high on the valve stems; real crop dusted if so. Upside down 2nd ring in theory, not practice.

  #37  
Old 11-22-2023, 01:42 PM
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Is it possible that adding the full mega brace to the lifter valley is causing too much crankcase pressure?
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  #38  
Old 11-22-2023, 04:53 PM
Dragncar Dragncar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spectramitch View Post
Is it possible that adding the full mega brace to the lifter valley is causing too much crankcase pressure?
No way, that full brace fixes a flaw in Pontiac engines. Air still gets around that lifter area with a full brace.
I run one and don,t have any smoke on the new engine.
If it were mine I would put some non detergent oil in it and go find a long steep hill, narrow twisty road, one that you are on and off the gas and run it hard up that hill.
Before I pulled it apart thats is what I would do. You have gas ported pistons and you should be able to push them against the cylinder wall hard if you can run it near peak torque.
That where peak cylinder pressure is at.


Last edited by Dragncar; 11-22-2023 at 05:04 PM.
  #39  
Old 11-23-2023, 09:47 PM
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I would try a good crank case ventelation, I believe that may be your
problem. get some baffled VC's and go off the back of intake or carb
Make sure you use baffled VC's or it will suck oil hope this helps.

GT

  #40  
Old 11-24-2023, 01:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgarblik View Post
The close-up pictures of the cylinder walls show allot of fractured and folded metal in the hone job. It will likely take allot of running time for the rings to wear a plateau on those walls, if ever. If the rings win the rubbing contest, the cylinder will eventually seal. If the the cylinder wears the rings out, well, it will not. We generally perform a 4 step hone job to eliminate these issues. 70 grit base to .003". 180 grit next to .001", 280 grit to size. Then finish with 6 strokes of 400 grit for initial break-in. With molly rings, this combination provides fast break-in, generally 1/2 hour of running time. Mineral oil only for break-in. No full synthetic oil until break-in is complete. Was this engine broken in with mineral based oil?
Long shot here…..but could the problem be from the coarse hone job holding more oil on the cylinder walls and then the rings are scraping the oil off and putting on top of the piston due to the gas porting holes?

Otherwise I would suspect oil getting pulled through the rocker studs, valve guides, etc.

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