[grd777]

I have an original hurst shifter on a Muncie m20 trans.i had it rebuilt along with the trans but not very happy with the way it shifts .seems to be hard to get into the gears .i heard about the short throw shifter ,any advice or suggestions

[johnta1]

It may just need adjustment?
Even if rebuilt, when put back on the linkages have to be adjusted just right for a smooth shift. A mis-adjusted throwout bearing can cause problems also.


Service Manual shows how to adjust them.

[grd777]

Originally Posted by johnta1

It may just need adjustment?
Even if rebuilt, when put back on the linkages have to be adjusted just right for a smooth shift. A mis-adjusted throwout bearing can cause problems also.


Service Manual shows how to adjust them.

My next step is to adjust the linkage. How can I tell if the throw out bearing is out of adjustment

[johnta1]

This is from Service Manual:





For me, the main thing is that the disc isn't still engaged when the clutch is fully pressed in. If it's hanging any amount, it will keep the tranny shaft rotating making it harder to get in next gear.



If you know how to shift without the clutch, it would shift good.

[johnta1]

Shifter Adjustment:

[grd777]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Shifter Adjustment:

You are a great help, this is a great hobby because of guys with your knowledge and care

[Cammer-6]

all that info is in the FSM(factory service manual)
buy a reprint of it(its cheap)
Its amazing how much info is in it.
Get one for the year and model you are working on.

[grd777]

Originally Posted by Cammer-6

all that info is in the FSM(factory service manual)
buy a reprint of it(its cheap)
Its amazing how much info is in it.
Get one for the year and model you are working on.

Again with this type of reply. READ the question

[unruhjonny]

"hard to get into gears" won't be fixed by a shorter throw.

this comes down to spending sufficient time on getting the geometry just right.

My opinion is that the rubber factory shifter grommets are a part of the shifter issues;
This is where an aftermarket Hurst Competition Plus really shines;
With a HCP shifter you can use the original style plastic(?) bushings, or go with steel bushings.

I have swapped parts between aftermarket and OEM shifter to have a factory housing and lever with the HCP gear selectors to eliminate the rubber bushings in favor of the aftermarket style.

So, if you get the rods nailed just right with the correct levers (or the levers you have), the only upgrade that will really make any discernable improvement from that point is to go with a factory-aftermarket hybrid shifter.



The net result is a much more solid shifter feel, with the only down side being you will feel more drivetrain vibration through the shifter.

[grd777]

Originally Posted by grd777

You are a great help, this is a great hobby because of guys with your knowledge and care

looks like i need to change out my shifter .want to buy a comp plus ,which one has the shifter arm that looks close to the stock

[Formula403]

See first sentence of previous reply. It's the carb equivalent of throwing a Holley on to fix a Qjet that wasn't adjusted correctly.

[grd777]

Originally Posted by Formula403

See first sentence of previous reply. It's the carb equivalent of throwing a Holley on to fix a Qjet that wasn't adjusted correctly.

need to change it, it keeps getting stuck on 3 rd .did all the adjustment on a rebuilt shifter comp plus has to be better ,i can live with a in correct shifter arm ?

[unruhjonny]

the aftermarket HCP shifter arms (at least from my experience) cannot work with a console.

i have to believe that you are missing something from what has been shared here.

i have set up several shifters, and the added play from factory rubber bushings are not that big of a factor.

my suggestion is that if you have the correct levers and rods;
disconnect the rods at the shifter, back off the lock nuts;
lock the shifter in neutral, then start over paying attention to making sure thst the spot where you finish setting the rod allows you to access all gears

[grd777]

Originally Posted by unruhjonny

the aftermarket HCP shifter arms (at least from my experience) cannot work with a console.

i have to believe that you are missing something from what has been shared here.

i have set up several shifters, and the added play from factory rubber bushings are not that big of a factor.

my suggestion is that if you have the correct levers and rods;
disconnect the rods at the shifter, back off the lock nuts;
lock the shifter in neutral, then start over paying attention to making sure thst the spot where you finish setting the rod allows you to access all gears

yes thanks for your reply .that is one of my concerns (shifter handle will not work ). i will try to do all the steps again ,what are the correct rods ,will check if mine are correct

[unruhjonny]

/\When I bought my '70 it came with a complete HCP shifter setup;
if you want to get the HCP rods and levers, those are different, but I preferred the factory stuff as they are thicker (and in my mind less prone to flexing).

To the best of my understanding you can use the aftermarket rods with a factory shifter, but you need to match the rod type you intened to use with their corresponding levers.

But the HCP will have essentially the same shifter assembly as a factory unit - the only differences are the handle acceptor (what ever it's called) and the levers - meaning the type of bushing they are made to work with...

if you try to resent everything, make sure that when in neutral and that the rods as set up are not putting any pressure on any gear lever - from my experience this is where you can easily go wrong.



Notice the aluminized carriage bolt right above the 1/2 lever that I am using as a centering pin;
if you have set it up correct, that "pin" should have no forward or rearward tension placed on it from the levers (that pressure would indicate an improperly adjusted rod);
Also, I tend to start at the inner most rod (reverse), then move to the middle (3/4), then lastly outer (1/2);
With each one, I have the lock nuts backed totally off so that the pin(?) sits naturally where it needs to, then snug up the lock bolts by finger - I then remove the rod and tighten the bolts - and reinstall to be sure I haven't moved the pin location.
When done, you should be able to R&R the centering pin (with only the drive tunnel being your obstacle), and you should be able to easily get in and out of all five gears (four forward, and one reverse).

[Formulas]

Exactly what oil do you have in the rebuilt trans now?

[grd777]

Originally Posted by unruhjonny

/\When I bought my '70 it came with a complete HCP shifter setup;
if you want to get the HCP rods and levers, those are different, but I preferred the factory stuff as they are thicker (and in my mind less prone to flexing).

To the best of my understanding you can use the aftermarket rods with a factory shifter, but you need to match the rod type you intened to use with their corresponding levers.

But the HCP will have essentially the same shifter assembly as a factory unit - the only differences are the handle acceptor (what ever it's called) and the levers - meaning the type of bushing they are made to work with...

if you try to resent everything, make sure that when in neutral and that the rods as set up are not putting any pressure on any gear lever - from my experience this is where you can easily go wrong.



Notice the aluminized carriage bolt right above the 1/2 lever that I am using as a centering pin;
if you have set it up correct, that "pin" should have no forward or rearward tension placed on it from the levers (that pressure would indicate an improperly adjusted rod);
Also, I tend to start at the inner most rod (reverse), then move to the middle (3/4), then lastly outer (1/2);
With each one, I have the lock nuts backed totally off so that the pin(?) sits naturally where it needs to, then snug up the lock bolts by finger - I then remove the rod and tighten the bolts - and reinstall to be sure I haven't moved the pin location.
When done, you should be able to R&R the centering pin (with only the drive tunnel being your obstacle), and you should be able to easily get in and out of all five gears (four forward, and one reverse).

great photo and info .in you photo i am assuming the the tranny is in neutral. btw it only gets stuck in third when i try to shift fast and in high rpm

[unruhjonny]

Yes, you can see that the gear levers are all in neutral, and if it wasn't in neutral, I wouldn't be able to get the neutral pin into place.

Originally Posted by grd777

...btw it only gets stuck in third when i try to shift fast and in high rpm

Oh - that could be a whole different issue...
It could still be a slightly mis-adjusted shifter rod...
but, if it's only while driving, and driving hard, that could also be a bad syncro.

I am NOT an expert;
I have had a good amount of hand-holding with transmission issues - but I have spent a good amount of time getting my car to shift just right.
(and it will start all over again once I get my car back on the road.)

[grd777]

Originally Posted by unruhjonny

Yes, you can see that the gear levers are all in neutral, and if it wasn't in neutral, I wouldn't be able to get the neutral pin into place.



Oh - that could be a whole different issue...
It could still be a slightly mis-adjusted shifter rod...
but, if it's only while driving, and driving hard, that could also be a bad syncro.

I am NOT an expert;
I have had a good amount of hand-holding with transmission issues - but I have spent a good amount of time getting my car to shift just right.
(and it will start all over again once I get my car back on the road.)

i had the tranny rebuilt so i hope it is not a bad synchro. i notice that some of the shifter for sale on ebay have 2 bolts that act as a stop . my shifter does not have them,could that be a issue also

[Formulas]

Those 2 bolts you mention are shifter stops for over travel after the gear engagement