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#1
05-11-2011, 08:45 PM
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Aluminum rod & decking question
I'm starting my new 428 build. I already had the block bored for the flat top venolia pistons. I will be using a well prepped 428 crank with Howards aluminum rods. This is the first time I've ever used alum rods which brings the question on deck height.
With steel rods, I wouls have the block zero decked, I "assume" with alum rods, I would leave the pistons in the hole a little bit to allow expansion/stretch. It that correct? How far in the hole?
__________________
 Johnny US Army Retired1978 T/A 463 Pontiac, KRE 74cc 292CFM D-ports, Lunati VooDoo, V-max lifters, TKII, ATM 850 E85 carb, TCI TH-350 race tranny, 3600 converter 3.73 12 bolt 11.63@116.68mph 1981 T/A 4-speed 406 Pontiac, Merrick ported 6X heads, Comp 270S cam, Crosswind intake 750 Street Demon, 3.42 30 spline Eaton posi street car. 1980 Formula 350 Pontiac back burner project 1972 LeMans 350 Pontiac |
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#2
05-11-2011, 08:57 PM
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I'd give Howards a call and follow their advise to a t.
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#3
05-11-2011, 10:27 PM
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I zero decked mine.
__________________
Come take a ride http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7Y8Awfk2I0 2008, 2013, 2015, 2016, 2019 Central Il Dragway Mod track champion and 2015 IHRA Div 5 Mod champion 
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#4
05-11-2011, 10:33 PM
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It is going to depend on which head gasket you use, call the MFG and get the specs if it did not come on a spec sheet for the rods. You need a little more room for those rods.
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#5
05-11-2011, 11:30 PM
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Thanks Gentlemen,
I didn't know this but apparently some time back, Howards Cams was split up. The alum rods are made in California and are not on the Howards Cams site (though they do list rods). I'll try to track them down tomorrow.
__________________
Johnny US Army Retired1978 T/A 463 Pontiac, KRE 74cc 292CFM D-ports, Lunati VooDoo, V-max lifters, TKII, ATM 850 E85 carb, TCI TH-350 race tranny, 3600 converter 3.73 12 bolt 11.63@116.68mph 1981 T/A 4-speed 406 Pontiac, Merrick ported 6X heads, Comp 270S cam, Crosswind intake 750 Street Demon, 3.42 30 spline Eaton posi street car. 1980 Formula 350 Pontiac back burner project 1972 LeMans 350 Pontiac |
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#6
05-11-2011, 11:32 PM
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I've had two sets of Bill Miller rods for a Pontiac, and in both cases the boxes were marked 6.615" length. That would suggest that aluminum needs .010" more clearance than, at least, cast.
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Bill 64 GTO, tube chassis w/606" IA tall deck, PG & a pro geared Fab 9". 2750 lbs. 8.2550@164.17-1/4, 5.2901@131.97-1/8, 1.1981-60-ft. 8/10/08 
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#7
05-12-2011, 12:01 AM
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Mine are 6.615, .010 in the hole. I use a .051 cometic gasket to give the recommended .060" clearance.
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68 Firebird Are you running with the wind or breaking it? |
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#8
05-12-2011, 06:22 PM
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On my last ali rod engine, I ran the piston .016" down in the bores with a .039" Felpro 1016 headgasket to give me .055" piston to head clearance. I ran this to 7000rpm with a 475gram piston and had no problems. .055" to .060" piston to head seems to be the recommended safe clearance with ali rods.
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#9
05-12-2011, 06:54 PM
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My BME were also marked 0.010 shorter. When I talked to them they recommended 0.060 total clearance for deck/gasket. I always wondered if we were losing some quench at that. Anyone run them tight enough to see kiss marks from the head?
__________________
Skip Fix 1978 Trans Am original owner 10.99 @ 124 pump gas 455 E heads, NO Bird ever! 1981 Black SE Trans Am stockish 6X 400ci, turbo 301 on a stand 1965 GTO 4 barrel 3 speed project 2004 GTO Pulse Red stock motor computer tune 13.43@103.4 1964 Impala SS 409/470ci 600 HP stroker project 1979 Camaro IAII Edelbrock head 500" 695 HP 10.33@132 3595lbs |
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#10
05-12-2011, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
__________________
Come take a ride http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7Y8Awfk2I0 2008, 2013, 2015, 2016, 2019 Central Il Dragway Mod track champion and 2015 IHRA Div 5 Mod champion
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#11
05-13-2011, 08:48 PM
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I like your answer Probird
Do I dare push the relms and go .005 out of the hole, ha ha Some real nice info here, Thanks guys. |
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#12
05-13-2011, 10:16 PM
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I've called them twice and left messages, hmm...
__________________
Johnny US Army Retired1978 T/A 463 Pontiac, KRE 74cc 292CFM D-ports, Lunati VooDoo, V-max lifters, TKII, ATM 850 E85 carb, TCI TH-350 race tranny, 3600 converter 3.73 12 bolt 11.63@116.68mph 1981 T/A 4-speed 406 Pontiac, Merrick ported 6X heads, Comp 270S cam, Crosswind intake 750 Street Demon, 3.42 30 spline Eaton posi street car. 1980 Formula 350 Pontiac back burner project 1972 LeMans 350 Pontiac |
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#13
05-13-2011, 10:25 PM
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I have a new set of BME's going in a shortblock right now. The previously mentioned .045" piston to head clearance is safe, but considered to be the absolute minimum safe number. Were setting mine up at .050". If you measure the rods, they will be ~.010" short, because at operating temp they will grow to the corect size.
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#14
05-13-2011, 10:52 PM
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Sometime this summer I'll clen the block some more and install the crank & rods and get a measurement. It was a very low use sat in a shop for over 30 years block so it's never been decked or resurfaced.
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Johnny US Army Retired1978 T/A 463 Pontiac, KRE 74cc 292CFM D-ports, Lunati VooDoo, V-max lifters, TKII, ATM 850 E85 carb, TCI TH-350 race tranny, 3600 converter 3.73 12 bolt 11.63@116.68mph 1981 T/A 4-speed 406 Pontiac, Merrick ported 6X heads, Comp 270S cam, Crosswind intake 750 Street Demon, 3.42 30 spline Eaton posi street car. 1980 Formula 350 Pontiac back burner project 1972 LeMans 350 Pontiac |
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#15
05-13-2011, 11:47 PM
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From what I found when checking for clearance on mine, .050"-.060" is "safe".
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PHILLYGOAT 1965 GTO/ OEM Block, Crank & D-ports(all slightly modified of course)/ 3550lbs/ Full Exhaust/ Foot Braking 1.41 60ft 6.45@104.97mph 10.25@127.12mph(Pontiac Heaven)  More Details on GOAT http://www.pontiaczone.com/forum/vbpicgallery.php?do=view&g=379 GTO Burnout http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZqdcH0Ltc4 |
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#16
05-14-2011, 11:05 PM
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I have a '69 428 4 bolt block that already had the bottom end done (about 15 years ago). 455 crank, brand new Superods, TRW L2394 std bore 455 spistons and the block has not been decked (still has the markings from when Pontiac measured the bores). This motor was built and never fired. I was going to go thru it and make certain all is well before installing it in my GTO. I've never run aluminum rods before. Anybody have any street experience with them? I thought about putting a set of Hbeam steel rods in it, but the crank has been lightened so much, I'm figuring it really isn't worth the effort. This combo kind of needs to be kept together.
I was going to just run it for a summer or two and then maybe sell it. Unless I could find someone interested in it before I tear into it anymore. It is still an assembled short block. It also includes a timing set, solid lifter cam (do not know specs yet), ported Torker intake, and other misc parts. PM for more info. It really is a more radical setup than I need.
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Tod Hoffmann 1966 GTO Montero Red Hardtop - Holley EFI'd 462, KRE DPorts/Muncie 4spd 1990 Chevy 454SS pickup - Accel DFI/T56 6spd - Hot Rod Power Tour Long Hauler 1996 Chevy K2500 ECSB 'Poopy' 2002 Honda VTX1800C 2016 Cadillac CTS Premium My project thread: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=516826 
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