[Jeff Kinsler]

Originally Posted by wreckmastr

LOL ......... So is ours

LMFAO

[bad69bird]

Originally Posted by RAIV-Z

Thanks Brian,

If you have space, I’ll take it. My crew is very quiet, don't drink much and usually go to bed really early 

How’s your bird doing?

The car is coming along nicely thanks!

Originally Posted by wreckmastr

LOL ......... So is ours

LMFAO...careful George might get offended Billy! Only Jeff can let his schlong out! LMAO

[RAIV-Z]

Originally Posted by Scott Stoneburg

RAIV, I see your heads/intake package in the classified section. What are you going to use?

Hi Scott,

It’s RAIV-Z. Kidding… The 69 Camaro get mad when it’s left out 

While I did manage to fix most of the visible issues with what I have now in order to support the minimum 1600hp build goal, I can’t realistically move forward without having vendors there to back up not only their work, but the product they are selling. So I’m replacing the entire McCarty/BES/IndyCartel top end.

Where this was going to be yet another major engine overhaul, actually the third for this build. I choose to go with someone who’s been in the business with a proven track record and has a reputation of standing behind their product and workmanship.

Work has begun on swapping over to DCI Motorsports RA-V heads.

Feel free to ask any questions.

Ed

[Scott Stoneburg]

Wow. Sucks that you have to start over on the head package. I will be following. I like the look of the dci V head. I am considering it for my next cylinder head upgrade.

[dci]

Thanks Ed for your support and confidence in my products. We have started forward progress on your heads and I am making a few upgrades for the turbo application. One of which is stainless steel exhaust valve guides. I am also reducing the valve sizes a little to get a little more meat between them for durability. As we proceed Ed and myself will keep everyone up to date. My biggest fear right now is time. I really want to see Ed and his team out in the spring or early summer. As long as I can keep Paris on schedule (not a dig on Paris. He just has allot going on too) and the parts don't hold us up. I think we can make it happen.



Happy Holidays!!!
Don Johnston
DCI MOTORSPORTS LLC.
330-850-5050 shop
330-628-3354 cell
Designer of the DCI Tiger Heads and the NEW DCI Ram Air 5 heads !!!!!!

[Matt Meaney]

Originally Posted by RAIV-Z

Hi Scott,

It’s RAIV-Z. Kidding… The 69 Camaro get mad when it’s left out 

While I did manage to fix most of the visible issues with what I have now in order to support the minimum 1600hp build goal, I can’t realistically move forward without having vendors there to back up not only their work, but the product they are selling. So I’m replacing the entire McCarty/BES/IndyCartel top end.

Where this was going to be yet another major engine overhaul, actually the third for this build. I choose to go with someone who’s been in the business with a proven track record and has a reputation of standing behind their product and workmanship.

Work has begun on swapping over to DCI Motorsports RA-V heads.

Feel free to ask any questions.

Ed

cool deal, now lets change that signature to something more appropriate

[67'7F6'Bird]

@@DCIRAV69BRD

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by dci

One of which is stainless steel exhaust valve guides"

Happy Holidays!!!
Don Johnston
DCI MOTORSPORTS LLC.
330-850-5050 shop
330-628-3354 cell
Designer of the DCI Tiger Heads and the NEW DCI Ram Air 5 heads !!!!!!

According to this guy, Stainless on Stainless is a bad idea. "EN214N race valves - they will seize in the guides."

http://www.calverst.com/articles/CH-..._and_usage.htm

So what magic do you have that will allow this concept to work?

Always interested in new ideas.

Tom V.

[Jack Gifford]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

... Stainless on Stainless is a bad idea...
... So what magic do you have that will allow this concept to work?...

Ditto on this question.

[shaker455]

I hope better results for you this time around Ed.

We all have good praise for Don here in NH...(including the guy in Barrington)

This soap opera needs to end & go racing!

[Elarson]

In general, stainless on stainless (anything) tends to seize.

If you're going to PRI, stop and visit Claude at CHE. We've gotten good advice from him on valve guides.

FWIW,
Eric

[Dragncar]

As a welder/fabricator stainless is pretty 'grabby" on everything. I know Ti rods are known to gall a little in the side clearance area.
Might wanna stay tried and true.

[LiL Jack]

Is the car almost done?

[dci]

I agree stainless will seize especially in a high heat situation. I do have a remedy for that though. Like Tom V states, Engineers do things for a reason. I am not just willy nilly installing steel guides without in depth research. After talking with several people that have way more experience than I do about what fails in a boosted application especially turbos. I have found that the bronze guides fail, and when they do they come apart in pieces that go through the turbo fins destroying them. So I am coming up with a solution that I hope remedies that and will save anyone that wants to run my heads in a boosted application money in turbo repairs. So please don't think that I have not considered all the things you have mentioned. The article Tom referenced is very informative and is a good general guide to follow, but does not cover every application or situation one might experience in the racing world. A steel guide alone with a stainless steel valve will indeed fail, but with a bronze liner and for a little added insurance a coated valve stem. I believe we will get the best of both worlds, a bronze guide with the durability of steel. From what I have seen and heard, the bronze guides will carbonize becoming brittle and disintegrate creating shrap metal that destroys the turbo fins and turbo failure. I am still undecided yet on the valve stem coating. I don't like coatings either because they will de-laminate under stressful situations and that can cause a failure too. I prefer a chemical impregnating process instead. This process will actually penetrate the surface and becomes part of the metal and cannot de-laminate like a coating.


Don Johnston
DCI MOTORSPORTS LLC.
330-850-5050 shop
330-628-3354 cell
Designer of the DCI Tiger Heads and the NEW DCI Ram Air 5 heads !!!!!!

[cgeise]

Why not Ti intake and Iconel exhaust ???

[dci]

The exhaust valves will be Inconel, but they will still gall without proper preparation. Inconel is actually a copy write trade name and is coined frequently for the super alloy that it represents. I chose stainless intakes for their durability and strength over Titanium. We don't need to worry about weight as much as durability. The intake valve guides can still be bronze because they will not see the same amount of heat that the exhaust does. So you don't typically see the degradation you see on the exhaust side were temperatures can make parts glow red hot.


Don Johnston
DCI MOTORSPORTS LLC.
330-850-5050 shop
330-628-3354 cell
Designer of the DCI Tiger Heads and the NEW DCI Ram Air 5 heads !!!!!!

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by dci

Like Tom V states, Engineers do things for a reason. I am not just willy nilly installing steel guides without in depth research. After talking with several people that have way more experience than I do about what fails in a boosted application especially turbos. I have found that the bronze guides fail, and when they do they come apart in pieces that go through the turbo fins destroying them. So I am coming up with a solution that I hope remedies that and will save anyone that wants to run my heads in a boosted application money in turbo repairs.


Don Johnston
DCI MOTORSPORTS LLC.
330-850-5050 shop
330-628-3354 cell
Designer of the DCI Tiger Heads and the NEW DCI Ram Air 5 heads !!!!!!

1) So how much testing have you seen with the bronze guide going thru the turbocharger. How many actual cases, Don?

2) I have seen Ceramic Wheels fail years ago when they were tried on Buicks and a piece of cast iron traveled thru the plumbing and shattered the wheel. Never saw a wheel shattered or even really damaged with any Turbo Wheels in recent years.

3) I built a rig one time at Ford Research that would allow us to spin a Turbocharger to 200,000 rpm (using a very large Supercharger for mass flow) for some testing we were doing. In ONE SECOND the Turbo wheels would go from basically at idle rpm, (5000 rpm) to 200,000 rpm.

After we finished that testing we decided to do some impact testing on the compressor wheel to see when it would fail from a foreign object impact.

We added a table spoon of sand to the compressor tract (behind a throttle valve in a secondary inlet passage that we could open quickly). No read damage at all.

Then we substituted a few 4-40 stainless nuts and ran the test again. No real damage.

Then we tried a larger nut, No real damage. The nut just hit the wheel and was "bunted" away from the wheel where it came to rest.

So we never had an "exploding Compressor Wheel or Turbine Wheel in the testing we did and the worse damage was some very small impact dings in the surface material. The wheels were the normal production wheels used by everyone today.

So the idea that the bronze guide is going to get into the wheel and cause the wheel to blow up is a Old Wife's Tale. It happened in the old Buick ceramic wheel days a few times but we have never had any real service data to show an issue in modern times.

Now sabotage, where a large nut is dropped in the downward inlet of a Vortech supercharger is possible to chip a wheel edge and lose Compressor Efficiency (slower track times) but again the wheel never shattered.

Only time I have seen wheels shatter is when the compressor wheel HEAT TREAT was not done properly and the wheels failed then for other reasons.

Just saying, REAL TEST DATA HERE. Damage? Possibly. Wheel failure? No.

Tom V.

[dci]

So what your saying Tom is that I should not try to make my product as fail safe as possible? I'm not following you here or maybe I'm misunderstanding you ???? I really don't know if a valve guide failure will totally destroy a turbo wheel or not, but I do know that I can limit the possibility of carnage by taking a few precautions. I did have a nasty experience with a centrifugal supercharger one time were a small air sensor or some kind of probe some how got sucked into the supercharger destroying the wheel. It looked like a hand full of bee bee's went through it. we never did find what went through it either. All I know was that the supercharger had to be rebuilt and the case had to be welded and repaired. So maybe I'm being a little over cautious, but I would rather try and avoid carnage than create it LOL.



Don Johnston
DCI MOTORSPORTS LLC.
330-850-5050 shop
330-628-3354 cell
Designer of the DCI Tiger Heads and the NEW DCI Ram Air 5 heads !!!!!!

[RAMAIR RICK]

Don, it is good to see that a real engineer is also backing the fact that you are designing and assembling components for your customers that may sound like it or they may be over built, etc. to EXCEED the expectations of your current and future customers, setting your own DCI Motorsports standards that YOU are bringing to the market.

[GTO Dan]

Originally Posted by RAMAIR RICK

?...it is good to see that a real engineer...

Uh-oh...someone is aimin' to get a whoopin' like Adrian Petersen is their dad.