[PAUL K]

I'm curious with all the talk about bargain cylinder heads this time of the year, I would like your answer to the following and embrace any comments with your thoughts or reasoning.

You've been putting money aside to upgrade your favorite Pontiac with a pair of bolt on aluminum heads for this Christmas Season. You go to your favorite engine builder and are offered a pair of heads complete, ready to bolt on for $3200 using all top shelf parts with all the bells and whistles. The builder also offers you an identical set of heads but they are blemished. They had a problem with a cutter and the seats may not of pressed in properly. They have the potential that the seat may fall out of the head and do little to severe damage to your engine. You are offered these blem heads for $2300.

[tom s]

With your description I would not.IF it was some surface casting blem that in no way would affect the performance of the head I would for sure.In the business I was in we bought tons of blem merchandise that was marked as such and still carried the full warranty.Tom

[racegto65]

I've purchased blem parts in the past with excellent results and would consider buying blem heads but not with a bad seat install.

[Murf]

So, your sayin that if I spend the $3200, the heads are guaranteed not too have any defects now and in the future? Where do I sign up?

Murf

[RocktimusPryme]

Speaking for myself I would probably inquire what additional cost would be required to correct the within reason. Could most of the doubt be removed for another $400? Still bringing me in notably cheaper? I think that is the logic that many apply when they buy the bare offshore castings and have them completed here with known good parts. A middle road that saves some money while still giving piece of mind.

My personal response would also depend on my relationship with the seller. A respected name like you from this site whom I have some trust in if you told me, "Look I cant sell these for full value, because I cant be 100% sure they are good, BUT I wouldnt sell them at all if I didnt think they were fine. I have a high degree of confidence they will be okay" I might be inclined to gamble there.

Im from Vegas, Im not here to not gamble Besides, how many builds have we all seen where no expense was spared and it still blows up. All you can do is try to mitigate risk with the budget you have. At some point its all a dice roll and you gotta throw em.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by Murf

So, your sayin that if I spend the $3200, the heads are guaranteed not too have any defects now and in the future? Where do I sign up?

Murf

I'm not sure how your favorite engine builder operates but normally the new head would come with a standard warrenty and the blem head would carry the same warrenty with the exception of the valve seats falling out. The seats wouldn't have a guarantee that they will fall out, but if they did any damage caused from the seat falling out would not be covered by any warrantee.

[242177P]

As described doesn't much sound like a "blem" to me, at least not as how I've come to understand it. To me, a Blem should only have cosmetic flaws. Like scratches or stains on natural aluminum, but otherwise sound. And I'm the kind of guy that wants to paint an AL head in the first place, so a blem in that sense wouldn't bother me. But yeah, bargain heads from the outfit formerly known as Professional Products still makes me a little uncomfortable.

[nas t eh]

I paid extra to have Butler supply, port and prep my heads. While I had years ago, hand ported my old iron heads, swirl polished my own valves and assembled my own heads off HO racing’s handbook. I much prefer the piece of mind from having someone with experience assemble this stuff. I just wish they would have recommended better rocker arms. But I don’t think it was well known then, that PRW roller rockers were sub standard, For all those that bought them, I hope we don’t find out that Speedmaster heads are below par somehow

[Murf]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

I'm not sure how your favorite engine builder operates but normally the new head would come with a standard warrenty and the blem head would carry the same warrenty with the exception of the valve seats falling out. The seats wouldn't have a guarantee that they will fall out, but if they did any damage caused from the seat falling out would not be covered by any warrantee.

Well, I don’t have a favorite engine builder but help me understand what your saying .
If I buy these heads from a builder like Butler and a seat would happen to fail out causing catastrophic engine failure. I would be made whole by them?

Thanks
Murf

[zippy]

Blem, or blemish is quite different from a manufacturing defect. Blem is cosmetic in nature. Now if it's cheap, offbrand parts. That's on same lines of manufacture / assembly flaw.
Are you saying the SM heads may or may not have seat issues? If so, I consider that a defect, not a blem.
Scorpion rollers where the logo isn't etched nicely, or the annodizing is blotchy. That's a blem to me.

[jhein]

Originally Posted by 242177P

As described doesn't much sound like a "blem" to me, at least not as how I've come to understand it. To me, a Blem should only have cosmetic flaws. Like scratches or stains on natural aluminum, but otherwise sound. And I'm the kind of guy that wants to paint an AL head in the first place, so a blem in that sense wouldn't bother me. But yeah, bargain heads from the outfit formerly known as Professional Products still makes me a little uncomfortable.

That's what I was thinking. What's described is not a blemish, but a defect.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by Murf

Well, I don’t have a favorite engine builder but help me understand what your saying .
If I buy these heads from a builder like Butler and a seat would happen to fail out causing catastrophic engine failure. I would be made whole by them?

Thanks
Murf

I can't speak for Butler, but if you bought the blem'd heads you would be the one on the hook for the damage. If you bought the other heads the repair would be covered by the warrenty. Since these are hypothetical heads I can't comment on the warrenty deal. If they came from Butler they should have product liability insurance and a claim would be filed with their insurance company.

[grandam1979]

Loaded question come on maybe you should ask if it’s a blemish with a edelbrock head would you buy it? Because from listening to you we know all speedmasters are junk. Maybe you should call Butler and let them know they are selling junk to people? Or a few of the other Pontiac builders that are selling them also. Just a FYI my buddy put speedmasters on his engine last years because his well know aluminum heads started leaking water weird huh.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by zippy

Blem, or blemish is quite different from a manufacturing defect. Blem is cosmetic in nature. Now if it's cheap, offbrand parts. That's on same lines of manufacture / assembly flaw.
Are you saying the SM heads may or may not have seat issues? If so, I consider that a defect, not a blem.
Scorpion rollers where the logo isn't etched nicely, or the annodizing is blotchy. That's a blem to me.

I'm saying exactly what I posted, I never mentioned a brand of head in my hypothetical question. However since you mentioned SM, their heads do come with a supplemental sheet warning of the possibility of seats loosing they're press if they are ported. This issue has been addressed on this Website and others.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by grandam1979

Loaded question come on maybe you should ask if it’s a blemish with a edelbrock head would you buy it? Because from listening to you we know all speedmasters are junk. Maybe you should call Butler and let them know they are selling junk to people? Or a few of the other Pontiac builders that are selling them also. Just a FYI my buddy put speedmasters on his engine last years because his well know aluminum heads started leaking water weird huh.

Seems like you are diving in deep on a basic, simple question. Pretty sure I never mentioned a brand of heads in my hypothetical question. Where have I said Speedmasters are junk?

[grandam1979]

I think you have made your opinion well known don’t back track now.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by grandam1979

I think you have made your opinion well known don’t back track now.

I'm not back tracking. You're jumping to conclusions or making chit up for some reason.

[Murf]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

I can't speak for Butler, but if you bought the blem'd heads you would be the one on the hook for the damage. If you bought the other heads the repair would be covered by the warrenty. Since these are hypothetical heads I can't comment on the warrenty deal. If they came from Butler they should have product liability insurance and a claim would be filed with their insurance company.

OK, thank you Paul. I was unaware that any engine builder would cover collateral damage caused by a defective aftermarket part. That is what your saying isn’t it. That you, the builder, would cover the damage. Not the manufacturer.

What is the name of your business & where are you located? I’ve seen you post good advice on here a lot but I’ve never seen you mention your company name. Was unaware you were a builder.

I’m going to need a 455 built soon & am looking for a hood builder. Can you actually sell me ready to run Edelbrock round ports set up right for $3,200.

Thanks again!

Murf

[grandam1979]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

I'm not back tracking. You're jumping to conclusions or making chit up for some reason.

I was going from your post in the speedmasters cnc thread you made your opinion very clear or did I miss understand them? With that said no chit starting just following what you said if I miss understood sorry.

[65madgoat]

I got what some could say was a "blem" E-head once from a very well known Pontiac head porter. The intake runner wall cracked upon pressure testing. Heads were CNC'd by him too. Stuff happens at all price points and to all brands of heads.

Just part of the game we play I feel.

Nothing can ever be expected to be perfect no matter how much you pay. So I would say getting a discount on something known to be or expected to be a blem gives you some satisfaction I guess in that you'll have some extra money to correct any issues that will pop up.