[Old Goat Racer]

https://www.corvetteforum.com/articl...qawlmbcE7Z7nkQ

[Stuart]

Story about a 1959 Corvette that faced being crushed because of a VIN tag issue, but apparently the issues have been resolved. The tag had been removed during restoration and was reinstalled using modern rivets.

[RocktimusPryme]

Whenever this general topic comes up it elicits very strong reactions from opposing forces.

One of the first lines in that article pretty much sums up my feelings.

"I don’t blame the Kansas Highway Patrol for what they’re doing in this case,” said Representative Leo Delperdang. “They’re doing their job. I blame the rule-makers"

I have a line on a C2 that is in a similar state. Sometime in the 70s the vin was tampered with and put back in with normal rivets. It has a clean title, but for someone who knows what to look for you can see the incorrect rivets. The original owner is long dead, but its been passed down in the family since that original owner. The generally agreed upon story is that the guy had several c2s in various states of repair in a garage that caught fire. The remaining salvageable parts were pieced together to make one goodish one. Which to me, sounds a whole lot like the restorations we do here on this board all the time. Somehow when that tag gets involved people get their panties in a bunch. In my case I think this was before people took vin tags as serious as they do now, but Im not going to swear to that. I thought the current laws went into effect in the 80s.

I just dont like the rules. Same with salvage titles. I think there should be a system by which inspection and anti theft investigation an owner can get a clear issued title rather than having to wear a Scarlet Letter. It pushes normal people to resort to graft to save a good car.

[mzbk2l]

Good points, RocktimusPryme - my views are pretty well aligned with yours on that one. My first '77 T/A had rusted frame rails at the rear spring mounts and I found a body of a southern '81 in a junkyard... it had been stolen and stripped, but the shell was immaculate, including the black paint and gold pinstripes. I tried to buy the whole shell, but the junkyard wanted to cut the firewall off because the hole for the VIN plate was in it. I finally got them to sell the entire bare shell (no glass, no interior, no VIN or trim tags, etc. They wouldn't even give me a bill of sale - they wanted nothing to do with the transaction. That car ended up back on the road for a number of years as a '77 Trans Am. (Possibly the only '77 Trans Am with metric seat belt bolts, twin dash speakers, and Fisher body T-Tops.)

[TAKerry]

Im with you guys as well. VIN tampering for illicit purposes should be punishable, but just trying to salvage or restore an old car is something different altogether. At some point common sense should be involved. If after an exhaustive search the vin comes up clean then whats the big deal?

[RocktimusPryme]

Right. Common sense being the theme of my thoughts as well.

That however, is not what the government does. They make blanket rules that dont always account for reason. Trust me, I work for the government. Through several administrations. We are all idiots here. Have been the whole time. Nobody should listen to us.

[1965gp]

I’m in a (creative?) situation with my 69 Firebird. The car is complete while it was at the body shop something happened to the vin. I don’t know if it fell behind the dash or if someone stole it thinking it was a real 69 TA. So now I have a title that will match all of the body stamps on the car- but no vin on the dash. People obviously do not like to create Vin #’s (myself included) but in this case I need a vin for a base model 350 2bbl car which won’t ever be used to increase the value.

I’ve thought about buying another car and using that vin and no one would probably ever know but I would like to stay away from that.

No plans on selling it anytime soon but still something I would like to get resolved

[mzbk2l]

That stinks, 1965gp! My step daughter had a windshield changed and a few weeks later I noticed there was no longer a VIN tag in the dash. She reached out to her windshield company to ask them to pull the windshield and see if the plate had been pushed down by the new glass and was stuck in the urethane, but they wouldn't touch it without meeting her at MVD to have an inspector watch them work. I ended up pulling the plastic cowl cover and finding the plate below the windshield wiper linkage - luckily! Looks like the moron who sawed through the old urethane also sawed through the VIN rivets. Next time she got a windshield they put a little glue on the back and stuck it back in place.

[1965gp]

That is lucky you were able to save it! I think I am out of luck on this 69…. I really don’t want a TX DMV vin #

[dataway]

I have the feeling there was more to this story. Some of these state police garages are VERY good at their job. Combine a re-attached legit VIN tag, with another identifying chassis number that shows as stolen ... and you have what could easily be a complete stolen car with re-attached VIN tag from some totaled car.

For instance supposed you have a 68 GTO with a re-attached tag that seems legit, but has frame numbers, trans, engine numbers that all match and point to a stolen vehicle?

I'd bet in the story above it was NOT just a technical issue with the VIN that caused the problem. There very well could have been other identifying factors that pointed to a stolen car under the tag. Even original owner engraved numbers in a hidden location, specific serial numbered part used etc. Lots of owners have many detailed records on their rare cars other than just the VIN, and that info goes into the police report when the car is stolen and is entered into the databases.

[66sprint6]

Is this all because they didn't reattach the vin plate with rosette rivets? They are available. You'd have to be crazy to try using a modern Home Depot rivet.

[Keith Seymore]

Rosette rivets weren't introduced until mid year 1965 model year.

My September of '64 Pontiac Michigan built '65 GTO has round rivets.

K

[poncho-mike]

Getting a title problem straightened out is a big problem, even when the Dept of Motor Vehicles screws up.

I had a 1973 Grand Am I bought a number of years back with an out of state title. The title had the VIN listed clearly, and the type was 2D. There was only one space between the VIN and 2D, and the information was not contained in boxes. So what does the NC DMV do? When they issued the title to me, they appended the 2D to the end of the VIN number. I never noticed it until went to sell the car. I went to the DMV office and showed them a photocopy of the original title, clearly showing it was their error. But they claimed they couldn't do anything about it. To get it corrected, I had to make an appointment with a DMV inspector. He went over it for almost two hours, looking for VIN numbers on the frame, engine, and tranny. Luckily it was a numbers match car, so everything was fine. I was really annoyed to find that I had to pay to correct their mistake.

[Jay S]

I love my 60s IHC pickups…The factory VIN is attached to the door with 4 sheet sheet metal screws!

Kansas has some screwed up laws, I hadn’t heard of the title police destroying cars. Glad the KS legislature changed that. Another screwy law in KS is the No Fault car insurance policies in Kansas for licensing vehicles. Don’t get in an accident in Kansas, they only have to have very small liability insurance. Something like $5000. A couple years ago my brother and his wife were driving their new car in KS and a guy fell asleep and hit him head on, totaling the car. My brother could see him coming and got completely stopped. But the 1 ton pickup with the huge grill guard hit him head on at 40 mph. The No fault insurance means your OWN health and car insurance has to cover the damage on your own car. Even though it was totally someone else’s fault. I can’t remember what the other drivers insurance covered, seems like it was $5000. Any injuries or cost above that you have to Lawyer up. And plan on getting nothing. The guy that hit my brother was from Mexico on a work vise, didn’t speak any english…My sister in law still has some health troubles from that.

Titles can be a nightmare. I had a clerk mistakingly confuse a number on a title. Out of state, thru a dealer, that then turned around and solid it through an auction house company. All of which were not required to retitle the car, and had no info on the original owner. What a mess…The clerk knew it was their fault, but could do nothing about it.

[dataway]

My car should be ready to be registered in NY this year, last time it was registered was in TN in the early 1980's. I still have the original embossed TN title, registration, original state bill of sale etc. I should be moving back to TN in the near future ... so basically I probably won't ever register it in NY, just to avoid any problems or mix-ups. Not to mention NY would require that I turn over the original TN title and would replace it with a crappy little NY registration.

[gobrdgo]

I bought a pan head Harley with “ dealer replacement” cases. Turned out to be a tattoo job and it just soured the bike for me. I sold it at a big loss clearly stating the cases were a re stamp. These old machines are just like people, some have very sordid pasts.

[Lemans64]

I posted about this a while back, Brother In Law had a 66 Chevelle SS Big Block car, But Vin Tags had been removed and door tag was installed upside down, LOL, Yup. Told him about it and he said that it was removed for paint, But who knows, could be a body swap or ?? He was a little sketchy so ya never know if he told the truth or story got produced somewhere. Somebody bought it and resold it 6 months after saying it was a true car. But always that little bit of doubt.

[TAKerry]

Im sure thats not the first chevelle to be sold as an SS that may have a questionable past!