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Old 03-21-2018, 07:11 AM
Cliff R's Avatar
Cliff R Cliff R is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Mount Vernon, Ohio 43050
Posts: 18,001
Default What are they selling us these days?

Finally had a moment to tell a story, and I love stories especially when they relate to what we are doing with our vehicles these days.

It's not about a Pontiac engine, but everything relates to what many of us will face when selecting components for our engines. It's going to be a lengthy read, but worth the time.

A very good friend of mine is an arborist and has his own company that does tree removal. He purchased a very nice mid 1980's Chevy 1 ton dump truck to pull his wood chipper and haul equipment and employees to and from jobs.

About a year ago he spun a bearing in the original 350 SBC 2bbl engine. He opted to trade the new engine and install for some tree work (barter system) with a local engine builder and SBC "guru".

The builder installed a "rebuilt" 406 SBC engine and my friend mentioned that I did carburetor work, so the "builder" called me asking if I would build a carb for this new engine. He told me that it "required" at least 750cfm, double pumper would be a bonus. I told him that I only did Quadrajets and he immediately blurted out that he wouldn't have one of those POS carburetor on anything he built.

That was good news for me and kept us "out of the equation" as I've been around this sort of thing long enough to know that guys like that are more often than not "hacks" anyhow and not professionals. My suspicions were confirmed when he told me that he had installed a "high performance" Comp Cam, double hump heads, and Edelbrock Torker II intake, which are NOT well suited to this sort of application right to start with that relies on smooth idle, strong power off idle and all the power in the lower rpm range.

Anyhow, about a few weeks later my friend calls me and wants to bring the truck up because it has a "shake" in it. I asked if the flywheel was replaced (400's are externally balanced) and he said no, so back to the "guru" it goes.

Not even two weeks later my friend calls and asks me if I would look at the new engine as it just isn't running well, consuming TONS of fuel, and refuses to idle down consistently. He is also having cold start issues with it.

So I take a look, adjust the choke, retard the timing about 20 degrees, and sent it down the road. I wished I hadn't touched it, fearing that I had now "married" this job.

My instincts were correct, and in the past 10 months or so two weeks haven't went by that my friend hasn't called me to rescue him off a job, or stopped by with his truck for me to take a look at it for not running well.

So, we have the background on the project, now we'll get down to the meat and potatoes. The brand spanking new Holley Street Avenger 750cfm DP electric choke carb is absolutely the biggest POS I've ever had the privilege of working with. The electric choke set-up is HOPELESS, and despite all efforts just flat refuses to work well. It doesn't go two weeks without flooding profusely out the vents on one end or the other. Usually a good "whack" with a big screwdriver handle and pinching off the fuel line corrects that issue. I suppose part of the trouble is the braided fuel line and clear glass in line filter set-up. Probably isn't helping that the fuel line down at the pump was cut off with a hack saw and chewed up the rubber some on the fuel line.

Even so I've installed numerous genuine Holley N/S assemblies and replace the floats in both bowls as well just for good measure. I've had to remove the metering blocks more times that I can count as well to blow things out, and I suspect the carb is de-laminating and small particles of material are moving thru it adding to it's already horrible running issues.

The vehicle requires 20 dollars worth of fuel for a 10 mile trip to and from a job, so it's a dollar a mile and no amount of jetting in either direction made a dent in that deal....FWIW.

We also traced down the Summit HEI distributor as a contributor to the piss-poor inconsistent idle characteristics the engine has. So that part of the equation isn't helping things out either. At this point folks may be wondering why I just don't build a carb for it and replace the HEI and be done with it.

Well, two reasons why I shied away from that deal is that the engine is NOT my doing, and if I put much better parts on it, and it drops a valve or throws a rod, the local "guru" will most likely use that as a disclaimer and not fix it.

So basically I'm just keeping it going without getting deeply involved in it.

Well last week my friend called me up, the truck was broken down again on a job near here, and he told me that he had a major falling out with the engine builder and was DONE with him.

So I had it flat towed so we could work on it. We replaced the Holley Street Avenger with a stone stock 1973 Q-jet from an Oldsmobile 455 motor home engine. Nothing fancy done to it anyplace, just a complete/correct rebuild with modern components. We did this because those units were not emission calibrated and set up for heavy duty/towing use.

Good choice as it roared to life instantly and ran better everyplace than the new Holley it replaced. We still had a minor idle issue with it as the Summit HEI distributor was adding is some timing clear down at 650rpm's and you had to lower the speed screw to get it to "settle down". Even so, when the idle speed was re-set at 650 rpms and the engine revved up, it would NOT return to idle as the weights/springs were hanging up and not allowing the timing to return to the base setting (sound familiar).

We opted to do a quick-fix there and replace the POS springs in the Summit HEI with GM parts, which instantly corrected any and all idle issues with the engine. It now idles nicely at 650rpm's and doesn't "run-on" any more when shut down like it did with the previous carb.

Now here's the best part. We put 5 gallons of fuel in the empty tank prior to the carb install and run-in. Then we drove the truck all over the place and the gauge barely moved. I even took the truck out for another run before we had the owner pick it up just to do a cold start and see how it acted thru warm up, etc. Even with considerable idle time, tuning, and several trips to check things out it isn't using half the fuel it was with the previous arrangement!

So lessons learned once again for me as I have avoided any of these type of parts for decades now, knowing full well they just aren't that great and not getting any better.

In closing I'd add here that these are just my recent direct involvement with a specific application. I don't want or need any more work in the shop, so no intentions whatsoever to steer any work in my direction. Just pointing out that this stuff isn't getting any better, and if you buy these type of parts and have good luck with them, I'm happy for you.......Cliff

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https://cliffshighperformance.com/
73 Ventura, SOLD 455, 3740lbs, 11.30's at 120mph, 1977 Pontiac Q-jet, HO intake, HEI, 10" converter, 3.42 gears, DOT's, 7.20's at 96mph and still WAY under the roll bar rule. Best ET to date 7.18 at 97MPH (1/8th mile),
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