[East]

Are there different versions of this bracket that would affect the mounting position of power steering and alternator in relationship to crank and water pump pulley alignment?

I was looking to replace water pump pulley thinking that it would correct the belt alignment of alternator and power steering pump. After looking at the situation closer, the water pump pulley and crank pulley are in alignment with each other.

It's the power steering and alternator pulleys that are out of alignment with the water pump and crank pulleys.

I have used spacers to correct the alignment but I was looking to correct the alignment by matching the correct parts instead.

I also looked up the number on the water pump pulley and it was for 1971 and 1972 HO 455. Not sure how it ended up like that, but I used it because of the smaller diameter thinking it would be better for cooling.

[steve25]

Please provide all the info as to
Year of car.?

Body type.?

Year of motor.?

Casting number of heads.?

A/C or not .?

[East]

the car in question is

1969 Firebird Coupe

Engine has #16 casting heads

Car was equipped with air conditioning

Original engine was 350 with TH 350 back in 1982

Engine was swapped with 400 from 68 GTO. Block was identified as 1973.

#16 heads acquired for 400.

Several years later, 400 swapped for 1969 428, retained #16 heads.

[East]

missed adding pictures

[steve25]

So the water pump pulley you have now is 7 7/16" in diameter?

[East]

Here is a link from another post regarding the 485397 YN pulley.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...5hQk8P_bL87Uiq

That diameter is 5 3/4 according to the information in the documents posted in the thread.

[chiphead]

'69 had the long and short 11 bolt water pumps. The brackets were the same from '67-70, it was the pulleys that changed. '71 pulleys would have been designed for the 71-later stamped brackets. I'm guessing you've got mixmatched pulleys, so the whole system doesn't line up.

[b-man]

This is pretty easy to fix.

Get all the proper 1969 pulleys for an air conditioned application and matching 1969 short 4” snout water pump.

The crank and water pump pulleys align with each other but they’re out of whack with all the accessories. So with that you need to replace those two pulleys with the correct 1969 crank and water pump pulleys it seems.

Did you somehow lose the original 1969 crank and water pump pulleys?

[East]

I cannot be certain as it has been through the course of 41 years.

I do have one other crank balancer/damper with pulleys. Not sure about water pump pulley either.

I did not notice the half inch alignment issue until recently, and that is when I added spacers at alternator and power steering pump.

I vaguely remember in the 80s being asked in parts store if I needed 4 1/2 or 4 inch snout on pump. I shrugged not knowing. I have since been purchasing the 4 1/2 pumps.

In my recent research I found that 4 inch pump was first, and 4 1/2 came after mid year.

I looked at Butler's conversion kits, found it to be pricey, and was going to just buy water pump pulley. Luck stepped in and made me look at present pulley for comparison, and I noticed crank pulley would be affected.

That is how I ended up here to find out if the head bracket could be involved.

I can't find crank pulleys if I were to find correct water pump pulley.

I also figured Butler sells 4 inch to 4 1/2 conversion because 4 inch pumps are pain to locate .

If my current state is already snafu, I want to buy least amount to fix alignment.

That means crank and water pump pulleys.

Or continue to use spacers, which work well but looks...

['ol Pinion head]

Post the part numbers that are stamped into your pulleys.
The mismatch is not in the brackets I'm seeing pics of.

Will state it again, there is no such thing as a 69 1/2 water pump pulley. All '69 V8 Firebirds through the last one, ALL production '69 Pontiac V8 engine cars, for that matter, came with a 4" hub height 11 bolt water pump. The 4 1/2" hub height 11 bolt water pump was introduced in August of '69 built '70 model Pontiac V8's.

In the '69 Firebird chassis, ESP with a thick factory 4core radiator, it is optimum to run the 4" hub height cast impeller water pump. With the 7 blade clutch fan or the 5 blade flex fan & the correct (very short) alum fan spacer, the fan is pushed too far into the factory fan shroud if one converts to a '70 wp pulley & 70 & later 11 bolt wp.

[East]

Okay, I learned something; 1969 and 1/2 means for 1970 models.

I was looking for numbers on the spare crank balancer/damper pulleys since it is off of engine and I have yet to locate a number. There is the single groove pulley for A/C compressor, and the two groove pulley for power steering and alternator.

I will try to find it again. I may have to wire brush them since it may be covered with paint.

May I ask where about on the pulleys would the stamps be positioned? I would rather not waste too much effort brushing the entire pulleys, and focus on likely location

[East]

The number stamp was very concealed, but I found it. The number on this one is 9790843 YC

[East]

The number on the 2 belt pulley is 9790842 YB

[East]

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...d.php?t=570267

Another pulley issue

Part numbers here

[East]

The crank has a pulley for 2 belts, and a pulley for a single belt; which accessories belong to each belt groove?

The reason that I am asking is because it appears that I have the correct crank pulleys for the year of car and engine.

If the water pump pulley lines up with crank pulley by first and second groove from front, and the power steering pump and alternator are positioned correctly, then going to a 4 inch pump from 4 1/2 would possibly line up belts on middle and inboard/ closest to timing cover belt groove.
I don't have, or have never had A/C compressor installed, so i don't know how that belt would align on the crank. I always thought/assumed that the A/C compressor belt rides on the pulley grove closest to timing chain cover.

Is it that simple?

[Singleton]

Yes, a/c pulley is the single pulley, belt would go from there directly to compressor without wrapping around the water pump pulley.
http://www.teufert.net/partbook/67-76/1-i.pdf

[East]

It's hard to investigate any ideas without having different parts on hand.

I have the part numbers of what I have in use, such as the crank pulleys. Those match my application.
The water pump pulley is wrong, but it lines up with the crank pulley.
The bracket for the head that mounts the steering pump and alternator is correct.
The water pump is 4 1/2 inch unit, but maybe it should be 4 inch. So if I replace the pulley or used the one that have, it may line up with pump and alternator, but not the crank pulleys.
Is there a source for pulley depth measurements? I have only seen diameter sizes provided.

[East]

I was reviewing my posts and suggestions that were provided, and I have discovered the problem and solution. The path to the answer was through the purchase of a Powerbond SFI replacement damper.

I discovered the misalignment of pulleys by looking at my pictures, and from trial fitting spare crank pulleys on the new part.

It's funny [stupid} when the obvious is right in front of you, and yet you refuse to accept what is to be correct. I suppose that the saying "You can't fix stupid" would apply in my case.

My new question is for whether or not to use the 4 inch over the current 4 1/2 water pump; is the 4 inch pump harder to find, and would it be more expensive because it is a more uncommon part? I don't want to have a difficult time replacing a 4 inch pump when that time comes to be.

Butler sells a conversion for switching to 4 1/2 pumps from 4 inch pump. I could purchase the pulley. But since I am so stubborn not to accept the facts, I think that I should research before proceeding.

I want to thank everyone for the help, and the patience for answering my question that has been asked NUMEROUS times on the forum.

Thank You!

[Cammer-6]

the next time you need to do alignment check,do my low budget method of using a string in place of the belt
if the string is tight it should find center of pulley.This method makes it very obvious when something is a miss.
Of course theres always a laser alignment tool.....

['ol Pinion head]

Originally Posted by East

... My new question is for whether or not to use the 4 inch over the current 4 1/2 water pump; is the 4 inch pump harder to find, and would it be more expensive because it is a more uncommon part? I don't want to have a difficult time replacing a 4 inch pump when that time comes to be....

Thank You!

Might reread the last paragraph of my above post. 4" hub height water pump is the way to go.

Unless you were doing a very high end restoration, the repro 4" pump from Ames will save you some $$ over a propperly rebuilt great condition original casting pump. With the 4" hub height casting water pump, you'll need the correct wp pulley, with factory AC, an '062.