[fixitrht]

This is not a what’s it worth thread!
I’m looking for a WC for my t/an and have a WS I was going to just build if I get into a pinch. I went to barn to look at it close and see two vin stamps on sequential order. Neat ? Maybe…. But it’s not a N vin so I assume GTO. Looking for help as to what it was for and if anyone is looking for it.

[thepontiacman]

Can you post pics of whole stamping on block?
I have seen double stampings of vin but usually same number.

Sent from my moto g power 5G - 2023 using Tapatalk

[fixitrht]

I don’t have another but it’s definitely a the vin and in the right place. Does anyone know the series or other indicators or what car it would be in. Like I know Norwood was Firebird ,

[thepontiacman]

WS came in GTO and Judge and TA and Formula.

vin example: 20P111429

this would be a 70 (0) at the Pontiac plant(P)

what are the second number and the letter on this block?

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

If you can't do a better picture of the full stampings , maybe you could just type the numbers out and we can read them.

Right now it looks like a double strike where the first strike didn't get the 1 at the end.
So they hit it again.
Supposed to be 9 numbers/letters in the group.

Van Nuys California built some Birds , plant code L in the VIN .

[fixitrht]

01 at digit 2 and 3.

It’s actually stuck 3 times. Twice ending 700 and once ending 701

[fixitrht]

Attached

[Cammer-6]

am I dizzy or is it the photo?

[fixitrht]

Hahaha yeah makes me dizzy too. That’s why I thought we’d have fun figuring out

[johnta1]

Can you write what it is stamped?

Should be - 20x1xxxxx
the 1st 'x' should be a letter, the last 5 x's should be numbers

Yours looks like a '1' where the letter should be?
(could be a Canada plant, I guess?)

[fixitrht]

This is my point, I don’t know why… 9 digits, all look correct, where I expect a letter I have a number and two sequential vin. Somebody has to know

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

201xxxxxx is from Oshawa Canada plant ... GTO / Judge
Their designator is a 1 instead of a letter.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

If you ever manage to get better shots of that triple stamp it would be a nice historical conversation piece.
The 700 twice and then 701 is mighty peculiar and might change the hand-me-down thoughts of them using a manually loaded gang stamp .

That would lead to thinking the stamp tool might have had adjustable roll numbers at each digit.
I worked at a tool & die shop for a while and the serial number stamper was that way that they used on new castings.

Cars didn't come down the assembly lines in VIN numerical order at any point of operations
So its really hard to understand how or why the stamp guy would have stopped and took out the 0 and loaded the 1 to hit the same engine a third time.
UNLESS he realized after hitting 700 twice , he was supposed to have stamped 701.

OR the digits were rollers and he tumbled the last roller accidentally.

If we knew the car that the engine came from we could decide better going by the VIN on the dash.

[fixitrht]

Interesting… Well I thought Canada did not have PHS and you could just look up? I’m going off memory as I had a Canada build 81 nascar back in late 90’s and think that’s what I’ did.

[johnta1]

PHS should have it, use the partial VIN on the engine.

[fixitrht]

Oshawa only built hard tops. I think I have enough to run a vin. Thanks all

68sd wrote:
this is all the 70 gto info i have seen from GM documentation

I did find this on another site from Canada- thanks to whoever they are

1866 1970 24237 G.T.Os made in canada (442 WT1 judges) (526 with L74 Ram air III)(269 with L74 RAIII/M40 combo)

288 judges imported into the US from Canada
133 455's produced in canada
1003 hardtop Judges with M40
233 W73 (VOE) GTOs (54 automatics)

[fixitrht]

From Canada poncho that originated from PY

I think this solves as a GTO , non judge as the plant only assembled RAIII judge cars.

This was all fun

the70judge said
Mar 29, 2009
There is some stuff on numbers on the Performance Years site..

We were working on the Canadian Judges but I do recall somewhere there was an amount of total GTO's out of Oshawa in 70

" Production Numbers Judges" "Oshawa built 288 Judges in 1970 NOT 442
The 442 # is the total # of 70 Judges Sold NEW in Canada in 1970 not the actual production of the Oshawa assembly plant.GM of Canada records every car regardless of where it was built as recorded total # sold new in Canada.
The balance of 154 Judge cars are probably 50 RAIV Judge cars built from Pontiac head plant because Oshawa only built RAIII Judges and the other 100 or Judges are from other assemble plants in USA ie Freemont California is a lot closer to the western provinces of BC and Alberta than Oshawa.
I hope this clarifies the #'s for everyone.
Fred Simons is correct 288 Judges built in Oshawa.

That is correct.Here's the poop on the ones BUILT in Oshawa
L74+M13=5
L74+M20=177
L74+M21=60
L74+M40=45
AND POSSIBLY ONE 455 auto car I'd Love to find.
The other number is sold New in Canada.

http://forums.performanceyears.com/f...anadian+judges

Is one of the links

and I dug up this in there somewhere

1866 GTO and 442 Judge, are the amount SOLD inside Canada. Would be a combination of those built and sold in Canada - plus those built in the U.S. and exported/sold into Canada.

Some of the Oshawa Judges may have been exported to U.S. or even abroad. The 288 is the number they produced in Oshawa. Going by the statistics of the drivetrain breakdowns.

So the correct answer depends on which question you want ask - in the end. Good things to know, too.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

GM of Canada would have the documentation also.
Theirs will even have the EUN listed for another cross reference.
EUN stamped where the WS is stamped.

I don't know who is the cheaper source right now .
$5 CAD is about $4 USD right now as well.

You could also try google & bing on the VIN (s) and see if the car pops up .
Good Luck

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

oh , you found outdated data we used to go by. Oops

Just about all that info you found on here is transposed (slightly incorrect) about Canadian 70 Judges.
And Oshawa also produced Ram3 GTO's as well as Ram3 Judges.
That comment you quoted was relating to they didn't build any Ram4 Judges - just Ram3 Judges.
No Ram4 cars built in Canada


George Zapora (who runs GM of Canada) set us mostly straight on the misunderstandings.
Our Guy (Fred Simmons of PMD) was using data that wasn't completely comprehensive .
And we all mis-used that partial data for years

From George (user name is vintagegz) :
we built 1,866 GTO coupes in 1970 for Canadian sale in Oshawa, 442 with WT1, 526 with L74, 133 with L75.

we built 3,014 for US sale, 288 with WT1, 379 with L74, 286 with L75.

That equals
730 Ram3 Judges
Either 175 -or- 905 Ram3 GTO's ( I think the L74 number includes the Judges too , so probs 175 GTO Ram3 )
419 cars with 455HO

140 of those Canadian Judges were OrbitO

[fixitrht]

Ahh , well even I get numbers mixed. Heck nobody noticed but I said I had a WS… I mis typed as I have a WA … embarrassing