[Schurkey]

As said, the PRW rockers are questionable. However...is it the ROCKERS that don't clear the valve cover, or is it the polylocks holding the rockers in place? Generally, it's the polylocks, and it's easy to buy shorter ones. Then you don't need the valve cover spacers, which allows you to lift the rear of the engine.

Make sure the fan still rides OK in the fan shroud, the radiator hoses aren't kinked, and the distributor clears the firewall acceptably. If the transmission has the back-drive linkage up to the steering column, you'll want to assure that it still works properly--maybe needs adjustment.

[Formulas]

Seems like shimming the tailshaft of trans and tapered leaf spring shims you could make it happier

I used these type of shims to keep the old style traction bars up off the ground and closer to the front leaf

https://www.summitracing.com/search/...f-spring-shims

[1971455HO]

Originally Posted by Schurkey

As said, the PRW rockers are questionable. However...is it the ROCKERS that don't clear the valve cover, or is it the polylocks holding the rockers in place? Generally, it's the polylocks, and it's easy to buy shorter ones. Then you don't need the valve cover spacers, which allows you to lift the rear of the engine.

Make sure the fan still rides OK in the fan shroud, the radiator hoses aren't kinked, and the distributor clears the firewall acceptably. If the transmission has the back-drive linkage up to the steering column, you'll want to assure that it still works properly--maybe needs adjustment.

Thank you Schurkey, It's the Polyloks !!!
Total novice here trying to learn. I did not know I could have went with shorter polylocks, that is an eye opener. First time dealing with Hyd. roller cam or roller rockers. However, you guys have already educated me and probably some others about how suspect the PRW steel roller rockers are.

I'm open to suggestions. I read online (so you know it's true) aluminum roller rockers are only good for 20-30K miles. I don't know that to be true, I'm sure a lot of you do know if that's a fact or not. I want longevity if that's possible using roller rockers. If not, I can go with a good set of plain old stamped steel rockers. Obviously the consensus is PRW is junk, so, I'm all ears.

Cliff and others went with Crower Enduro. Can they stand up to pleasure driving on the weekends or join up on the Power Tour? Just want to drive my car.

Mine is just a street motor: 4.21 early N crank, 4.21 bore, eagle rods, Ross pistons +0.060". Comp 224/230, 503/510, 4-7 swap mild hyd. roller, Butler Built Edelbrock CNC 87CC Round Port 61525 hyd. roller heads w/Holley Sniper Quadrajet.

Just trying to get it going before I'm too old to enjoy it. Thanks

[nas t eh]

The Crower Enduros are the top choice, I’m planning to use my car the same way as you, so that’s why I spent the money for them.

[1971455HO]

Originally Posted by nas t eh

The Crower Enduros are the top choice, I’m planning to use my car the same way as you, so that’s why I spent the money for them.

Me too. Done decided to spend the money. hoping somebody confirms the Crower Enduro will hold up to what I would consider daily/extended driving.
I don't race, but I do want to drive the car all I want. My weekends might be anywhere from 150- 400 miles.

I'm looking at this set from Summit:
Crower Enduro Stainless Steel Stud Mount Roller Rocker Arms 73627-16

Is this Overkill or are these the ones I need for dependability. Summit doesn't stock them, they're drop-shipped from Crower. takes about a month it looks like.

Thanks for your help.

[1971455HO]

Originally Posted by nas t eh

The Crower Enduros are the top choice, I’m planning to use my car the same way as you, so that’s why I spent the money for them.

Oh yeah.... like your handle there.... nas t eh

That Canada thing! Funny Cool.

[nas t eh]

Originally Posted by 1971455HO

I'm looking at this set from Summit:
Crower Enduro Stainless Steel Stud Mount Roller Rocker Arms 73627-16

Is this Overkill or are these the ones I need for dependability. Summit doesn't stock them, they're drop-shipped from Crower. takes about a month it looks like.

Thanks for your help.

Those are the ones. A number of members here have said these are what they run when they daily drive a roller cam engine.
I bought mine from Butler because they had them in stock and they were cheaper than Summit. While I was on the phone with Butler, I asked why they still sold the PRW crap, and that I was a little disappointed with them for not recommending these in the first place.. Could have saved a few hundred $ by getting the right thing the first time. The response was that the PRW‘s are good enough in the right conditions, for me that was a very poor answer, but I shut up and bought the Crower Enduros from them anyway because I was saving an extra 50 bucks or so over summit, and the rest of the stuff Butler sold me was great.

[1971455HO]

Originally Posted by nas t eh

Those are the ones. A number of members here have said these are what they run when they daily drive a roller cam engine.
I bought mine from Butler because they had them in stock and they were cheaper than Summit. While I was on the phone with Butler, I asked why they still sold the PRW crap, and that I was a little disappointed with them for not recommending these in the first place.. Could have saved a few hundred $ by getting the right thing the first time. The response was that the PRW‘s are good enough in the right conditions, for me that was a very poor answer, but I shut up and bought the Crower Enduros from them anyway because I was saving an extra 50 bucks or so over summit, and the rest of the stuff Butler sold me was great.

Thank you very much for a straight concise answer.

I bought my PRW roller rockers from them. They only build Pontiac's, I was trusting their recommendation. They gotta know from plenty of their customers contacting them about PRW failures.
What you told them, is what I intend to tell them.
Thank you Nas T Eh .

[1971455HO]

I started this post asking questions about (Bad Driveline Angle) and how to remedy my problem with too much engine/trans angle making the driveshaft run uphill because the valve covers were an inch higher than stock. Thanks to all of your comments and clarification I'm hoping to eliminate that issue. This takes me to a new question...
I ordered new Crower Enduro Stainless Steel Stud Mount Roller Rocker Arms 73627-16. Two adjustable pushrod checking tools, I already have valve checking springs so I can see if changing rockers changes my pushrod length ???

I have been doing this a pretty long time like some of you, but, I do not consider myself anything even close to being a pro.
#1: My question/questions is/are... Per Morel's website, they list my lifters as having 0.120" of preload travel. I read a post from Cliff here on the forum that he runs a deeper preload than a mere 1/2 - 3/4 turn on adjusting nut on his engines so they run quiet. My engine has a distinct tick to it. I discovered that the person who built mine did not put much preload on any of my lifters. I was thinking Cliff said he sets his at about .060"-.070". I will reread his post on that. I want mine quiet also.
#2: Because my cam is hydraulic, can I follow my old way of adjusting hydraulic valves, with certain valves adjusted on #1 @ TDC and the remaining on #6 @ TDC ? Also, because my cam has the 4/7 lobe swap, can I follow the chart I made (see below) to do that?

Hydraulic Valve Adjustment (With Standard 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 Firing Order)

Turn Crankshaft @ 0* #1 TDC

@ #1 TDC: Int. 1-2-5-7
@ #1 TDC: Exh. 1-3-4-8

Turn Crankshaft 360* #6 TDC

@ #6 TDC: Int. 3-4-6-8
@ #6 TDC: Exh. 2-5-6-7





Hydraulic Valve Adjustment (With 4/7 Swap 1-8-7-3-6-5-4-2 Firing Order)
@ #1 TDC: Int. 1-2-5-4
@ #1 TDC: Exh. 1-3-7-8

Turn Crankshaft 360* #6 TDC

@ #6 TDC: Int. 3-7-6-8
@ #6 TDC: Exh. 2-5-6-4

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by 1971455HO

I ordered new Crower Enduro Stainless Steel Stud Mount Roller Rocker Arms 73627-16. Two adjustable pushrod checking tools, I already have valve checking springs so I can see if changing rockers changes my pushrod length...

...Per Morel's website, they list my lifters as having 0.120" of preload travel. I read a post from Cliff here on the forum that he runs a deeper preload than a mere 1/2 - 3/4 turn on adjusting nut on his engines so they run quiet.

I don't think he runs his lifter plungers toward the bottom of their travel specifically to make them quiet. I think he runs his lifter plungers toward the bottom of their travel so that as they leak-down with stiff valve spring pressure, they can't leak down very far.

With the plungers adjusted to near the bottom of travel, it would take less oil to refill each lifter after it leaks-down; which may have the side-effect of reducing some noise especially on start-up when some lifters will have leaked-down overnight.

Originally Posted by 1971455HO

My engine has a distinct tick to it. I discovered that the person who built mine did not put much preload on any of my lifters.

Some guys want the lifter plunger near the top of it's travel, so they can't "pump up". Some guys want the lifter plunger near the bottom of it's travel, so it can't "leak down" excessively and beat-up the valvetrain. Most guys put the lifter plunger somewhere in the OEM adjustment range "just because". That offers the most available plunger travel no matter how the valvetrain wears--valve face and seat recession would drive the plunger downward; cam lobe and lifter bottom wear would allow the plunger to rise in the lifter body. So deliberately putting the adjustment somewhere near the middle of it's travel allows the maximum wear to take place before the lifter runs out of available travel.

There's a market in the high-performance world for hydraulic lifters with severely-restricted travel--the plunger can be near the top of it's travel AND be near the bottom of it's travel. Can't "pump up", can't "leak down"; but then becomes extremely sensitive to valvetrain wear when the plunger travel is only a few thousandths of an inch.

Originally Posted by 1971455HO

I was thinking Cliff said he sets his at about .060"-.070". I will reread his post on that. I want mine quiet also.

Aside from the benefit of not requiring much oil to refill the lifter after it's leaked-down, as long as the plunger is within it's range of travel, the lifter should be equally quiet no matter where the preload is adjusted. It helps to have a tiny vent hole in the oil gallery supplying the lifters with pressurized oil--so that air can be blown out the vent on startup, rather than making it's way through the lifter to escape. Obviously, adequate oil pressure is required, and that means appropriate global oil pressure, but also reasonable lifter-to-bore clearance that almost nobody checks and even fewer spend the time and money to correct.

Originally Posted by 1971455HO

#2: Because my cam is hydraulic, can I follow my old way of adjusting hydraulic valves, with certain valves adjusted on #1 @ TDC and the remaining on #6 @ TDC ?

I'm not going to examine which lifters get adjusted at which cam position. In general, that sort of adjustment procedure is entirely valid if somewhat cumbersome. So are a dozen other procedures using entirely different methods. I know some guys are so anal that they do the valves one-at-a-time watching for one valve to open or close while they adjust the other one. Which again is a valid procedure, but also a massive waste of time, effort, and enthusiasm on a hydraulic cam.

The benefit you have with new lifters is that you can set the lifter preload with the intake and valley cover REMOVED, so you can SEE the lifter preload. Make sure your pushrod length measurements take into account your intention to deep-seat the lifter plunger. You may need longer pushrods than someone who's goal is to lightly-preload the plunger.

If a hydraulic lifter is noisy, and the plunger is anywhere within it's range of travel--not topped-out, not bottomed-out--the lifter should be quiet in operation. If it isn't, there's something wrong. Perhaps the lifter isn't made right for quietness (example: deliberately high-leakage lifters like Rhoads, or negligently-made lifters like Communist Crap.) Perhaps the cam lobe profile is so radical that it tends to make the valvetrain noisy. Maybe there's slop in the rocker arm pivots, or perhaps there's hidden wear somewhere that the lifter plunger can't compensate for--wiped valve guides for example.

[1971455HO]

Thanks for taking time to answer my questions. I very much appreciate it.

[HWYSTR455]

"Bought the correct crossmember for the new trans..."

Which crossmember did you get? And what trans mount are you using?

Instead of moving the rear down, why not move the trans down? You may still have to change the rear, but it would make more sense to move it down.

Some trans mounts, like the poly one, can be taller, and same with the crossmember.

Some engine mounts are lower, like the engine rides lower in the saddle, that too can cause issues, especially if you change them. You can end up with the same issue all over again.

I just went through an engine mounts nightmare, even ones from the same manufacturer can vary, same part number.

Shackles can have an effect too, longer/shorter. You mentioned Herb Adams, he suggests the 'anti-squat' mod where you raise the front spring eye. Depending on how the spring eyes are made, that too can have an impact on driveline angles.

Is the rear housing original to the car?

CV joints are not a fix-all, and have limitations too. And some shops just slap together stuff to sell you, even if you don't need it. The best people to talk to is The Driveshaft Shop. They also have balancing equip that far exceeds your 'regular' driveshaft shop.

"we can spin a 17lb shaft to actual speeds of over 9000 RPM. Most driveshaft balancers only spin from 400-3000 RPM (most average about 1000 RPM). This machine was custom-made for us and high-speed balancing is offered as a separate service, only from The Drive Shaft Shop."

https://driveshaftshop.com/

Andrew70 worked with them on a couple project I believe, and many others have had luck with them. They can also Cardan type joints as well.


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