[getmygoat]

Hey all,

Broke an exhaust manifold bolt recently. Trying to remove with left hand drill and screw extractor. POS set from amazon, probably Chinese junk I don't know. The drilling went fine but then with very little force the extractor broke off in the hole. Tried drilling it out - not much progress. Any suggestions?

Would like to just take the manifold off and take to machine shop but I'm worried I might break off a bolt in the head and then I've got real issues.

Thanks for any thoughts!

[Lemans64]

Do you have a mig welder? Hold a nut up to it and weld thru the inside, weld the nut to the stud. Usually come out after that.
no welder? HMMM. Those bits are usually really hard, try breaking it with punch to get that part out and refill bigger.
Welder would be first choice.

[getmygoat]

No I don't have a welder.

Internet is saying grind it out with a dremmel.

[mgarblik]

Having a broken extractor inside a fastener is a difficult situation. I can tell you for sure you will spend hours trying to use a tiny Dremel tool to bore out a broken extractor. I wouldn't waste your time on that. As mentioned, heat is your friend in this situation. The MIG welder idea works very well. Do you have a friend who can help you that has a little MIG welder?

[Sirrotica]

If you have no welder, you likely don't have a oxy-acetylene cutting torch either.

During the last 50 plus years I've used cutting torches to remove broken off hardened steel, taps, EZ outs, etc. As soon as they get molten you just hit the oxygen, and turn them to slag. You'll get a rain of molten metal, but it works perfectly.

If you get enough experience with a cutting torch, you can remove broken off bolts from cast iron with the torch too. The steel bolt turns to slag with the addition of oxygen, and the cast iron is unaffected. Anyone that has worked in a muffler shop for any length of time will master the art.

That's how I do it, but it requires the correct tools, and some experience to do it.

Rather than use hard EZ outs to remove broken bolts, use the tang of a file where the handle goes on them. You have a square, soft metal, tapered tang that can be hammered into the hole you've drilled. It will grab the inside diameter of the bolt with the squared off edges, and likely turn the bolt out. The tang of a file isn't hardened, and won't shear off like hardened steel does. My father showed me that trick decades ago, it works most of the time if the bolt isn't rust fused to the manifold. Constant tapping with a hammer on the file as you're trying to turn it out helps to free up the threads too. Heat is also the thing that frees up rust fused metals.

If you can't do the manifold broken bolt removal at your house, take the manifold off of the engine, and take it to a muffler shop, they do this stuff daily, and have the tools, and tricks to get the broken bolt out. These guys have the most experience facing these problems every day.

These are my suggestions, having worked on cars as my profession in the rust belt for over 50 years, I hope this helps you get the exhaust back together.

[getmygoat]

Thanks for all the suggestions, much appreciated. Yeah, I don't have torches or welders here. Just a bunch of craftman hand tools, etc.

From some internet research, it sounds like a "carbide burr" might work - they are expensive drill bit like things.

Also there is something called the "rescue bit" made for this situation. Also not cheap at $53 + shipping I assume

https://rescuebit.com/

I would just take the manifold off, since I've already got an engine crane setup to lift the motor and pull the oil pan - but I'm worried I might break off a manifold bolt in the head, and then I'd be really up sheit creek. I already tried to remove the heat collector (for air cleaner) and just those bolts are very rusted solid. Started stripping one with a 12 point open end

Quite a dilemma - and I haven't pulled the old rear seal with the crank installed using the "sneaky pete" tool yet.

[4zpeed]

Is it torn down past the point you can't drive it? If not and you've got a good exhaust
shop near they could do the removal for you in the manner that's been mentioned.


Frank

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by getmygoat

I already tried to remove the heat collector (for air cleaner) and just those bolts are very rusted solid. Started stripping one with a 12 point open end

12-point tools strip things WAY too easily. Just not enough gripping surface.

Dremels or a carbide burr will be a waste-of-time. Been there and done that.

Mgarblik's method is absolutely the best way. Maybe you could search out a 'mobile welder' who could come by and weld the nut on the broken bolt? It will save you HOURS and HOURS of work that probably still won't accomplish what you need to do.

Or possibly have him (the mobile welder) heat things up with his oxy-acetylene welder and then just blow out the slag, as suggested by Sirrotica.

Good luck!

[dataway]

I know it's too late now ... but reserve the 12 point stuff for putting together swing sets.

I typically won't touch anything important with 12 point tools, yes it can be a pain sometimes to position six points, but way less of a pain than rounded heads.

I worked with a 70 something year old guy everyone called "Father George" best welder I've ever seen. He would use a carbon gouge rod and in literally five seconds burn the bolt out of exhaust manifolds .. then take a little pick and collapse the remain bolt threads in the hole and leave pristine manifold threads still in place. I miss that guy, he was WAY more talented and nice than his son ... that I worked for.

[necdb3]

If you don't have a welder, X2 on removing the manifold and have a friend or machine shop remove it for you.

[getmygoat]

Thanks guys. Maybe once I get the rear main seal replaced (hope!) I'll just put the car back together and take to exhaust shop.

Tried a harbor freight "diamond impregnated" drill bits in a dremmel knock-off last night. Drilled for > 45 minutes and made a small impression, but I assume I'd have another hour or so before I might get the extractor out.

Even after I get the extractor out, I'd still have the bolt issue.

[mgarblik]

From your posts am I correct that your going to replace a rear main seal with the engine in the car? That's not impossible but is very difficult to accomplish. Also your chance of a leak free repair is just over 50% in my experience. Getting the old seal out, new seal in, oil pan sealed at the rear, it's all very difficult. If your removing the engine, dealing with the broken bolts becomes much easier. Please detail what your trying to accomplish and many folks on here can guide you to success.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

From your posts am I correct that your going to replace a rear main seal with the engine in the car? That's not impossible but is very difficult to accomplish. Also your chance of a leak free repair is just over 50% in my experience. Getting the old seal out, new seal in, oil pan sealed at the rear, it's all very difficult. If your removing the engine, dealing with the broken bolts becomes much easier. Please detail what your trying to accomplish and many folks on here can guide you to success.

Having been there, done this, at least twice on a Stratostreak Pontiac V8 in my lifetime, I'll echo Mike's advice that the likliehood of you getting the rear main to seal, leak free, in the car, is probably less than 50%.

You already have most of the work done to remove the engine, just keep going and put it on a engine stand, and do the rear main out of the car. There are a ton of people that have told their stories on PY, and removed the engine, and still had rear main seals leak with the engine out of the car. Inverted on a stand, in the best working conditions, and still had the seals leak. It's a delicate job to get one in with the crank out of the block, and have it seal, doing it upside down with oil dripping on you, with the crank in the block makes it almost impossible to get a leak free job.

At this point the seals are so old, that repacking the OEM seal with new ends is a futile task. It will likely leak worse than before. Using chinese fingers to pull a new top half in does not allow you to pack the upper half of the seal into the block properly either.

It may seem that you're saving time, but in all acctuality your making the job much harder. My advice is to pull the engine, put it on a stand, and work on it in much better conditions than under the car. You'll at least double your chances of success. I'm speaking from actual experience, not conjecture here. If your planning on using chinese fingers to pull the new seal in, abandon that idea, it won't work well in practice. I've spent a lot of time trying to do this job in chassis, only to have to do everything over again. Doing it twice really sucks, plus you'll end up spending more money/time doing it twice.

[Jim Scites]

I've broken the hardened extractors out with spring loaded center punches, they are pretty fragile especially the cheaper models. Once you get it out drill a hole completely through it and get it as close as possible to the center. I have drilled the bolt out to tap drill size and run a tap into the hole to make threads again. If necessary you can drill and install a helicoil. Make sure you use never seez on the new bolts whatever you do.

[KS circutguy]

What I used for 30+ years;
General Tools Heavy-Duty Automatic Center Punch
https://www.amazon.com/General-Tools...70&sr=8-6&th=1
Cobalt reverse drill bits
https://www.amazon.com/10037A-Left-H...62&sr=8-9&th=1
If needed a tap set, metric or standard;
https://www.harborfreight.com/hand-t...ece-62831.html

That is a pretty easy job,looks like a straight shot.
Go easy, let the bit + drill do it's job.
Forget about Titanium bits,Cobalt is the way to go.

[getmygoat]

Well, maybe against the odds I was able to get the broken extractor out. Used a $14 dremmel bit as shown in pics. yay!

Now the question is how to proceed. Was wondering if I can use a 1/4 bit in the hole? Bolt is 3/8 so not a lot of extra room in case I'm off center. But I get the feeling the bigger the hole the better?

Don't have a file with detachable handle unfortunately or I would try that first.

Thanks again for all your suggestions and moral support ha ha!

[KS circutguy]

Nice work,drill it till you go threw it.
Then easy out, easy duz it.

[Scarebird]

Left hand drill bit works nice. Pilot drill 1/8", then 3/16 regular - then hit it with a 1/4" LH bit.

[nas t eh]

Soak it with ‘liquid wrench or WD40 a few times can help as well.

[ta6point6]

I would do like others have said drill all the way through. Heat is your friend and if you can start vehicle, let manifold get nice and hot and then use an extractor. If you cant do that then use some PB blaster and let it soak. The stuff smells like crap but has always worked for me if you let it sit for a day or two