[Formulajones]

[QUOTE=Cliff R;6482614

By the time Hylift Johnson recovered from their scandal/bankruptsy in 2003 the market was flooded with crappy lifters and those companies that make them are still in the game today supplying sub-par lifters that don't spin like they should and even if they do they aren't made of good materials so the entire deal is doomed anyhow........FWIW.....[/QUOTE]

Ive said it before, a lot of reboxed garbage out there. I know everyone looks for a deal but is it worth the cost of your engine?

[Steve C.]

"Every cam I design is designed the same way, unsymmetrical, with a delayed, fast-opening, and a delayed, gentler closing side.
When I open the exhaust valve fast, it produces an intense sonic pulse, which gives it the 'crackling' sound.
By delaying the exhaust opening, I also squeeze out some extra torque from the cylinder.
I have done it this way since 1977, and have always told anyone who wanted to know, how it worked."

Harold Brookshire
AKA UDHarold

Since he has been introduced here if anyone is interested some of harold brookshire cam thoughts are compiled in these links.
Note some might be taken out of context from the original topic and probably some duplication.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/clev...ed-t17161.html


Scroll down to UDHarold , open all his posts and read away. It's information overload but real knowledge seekers will like it.
Nicest guy with the biggest burning desire for cams & performance you'll ever meet.
Lunati's whole Voodoo line is straight from his mind. (side note: not all of the Voodoo designs are Harold's)

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208379


.

[4zpeed]

Voodoo child right here boss...


Frank

[Steve C.]

And if interested in Harold's original UltraDyne lobes they can be ground at Bullet Racing Cams.
Ask for Tim Goolsby at ext 102, he worked with Harold for 21 years at UltraDyne.

https://www.bulletcams.com/

If they have a core on hand !



.

[Cliff R]

"Ive said it before, a lot of reboxed garbage out there."

Sort of related but several years before I got out of the engine building business I noticed MAJOR changes to many of the parts we'd been using.

One thing in particular was boxing. I'd get in a TRW part, for example, and on the box it would say that the Country of origin was listed on the bottom of the box. Flip the box over and a dozen or so Countries listed but nothing specifying any one in particular. Probably one method used to confuse everyone involved as to whether the part was offshore origin, re-boxed, or some sort of low quality substitution for what used to be a high quality USA made part........

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

"Ive said it before, a lot of reboxed garbage out there."

Sort of related but several years before I got out of the engine building business I noticed MAJOR changes to many of the parts we'd been using.

One thing in particular was boxing. I'd get in a TRW part, for example, and on the box it would say that the Country of origin was listed on the bottom of the box. Flip the box over and a dozen or so Countries listed but nothing specifying any one in particular. Probably one method used to confuse everyone involved as to whether the part was offshore origin, re-boxed, or some sort of low quality substitution for what used to be a high quality USA made part........

Not very encouraging is it

[Gach]

Originally Posted by Steve C.

And if interested in Harold's original UltraDyne lobes they can be ground at Bullet Racing Cams.
Ask for Tim Goolsby at ext 102, he worked with Harold for 21 years at UltraDyne.

https://www.bulletcams.com/

If they have a core on hand !



.

I can’t stop laughing just got off the phone with Bullet cams/UltraDyne. Talking about cam for my present Application, comparing it with Comp Cams. Both using their cam program. Almost identical. LOL 645.00 ouch !

[Gach]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

"Ive said it before, a lot of reboxed garbage out there."

Sort of related but several years before I got out of the engine building business I noticed MAJOR changes to many of the parts we'd been using.

One thing in particular was boxing. I'd get in a TRW part, for example, and on the box it would say that the Country of origin was listed on the bottom of the box. Flip the box over and a dozen or so Countries listed but nothing specifying any one in particular. Probably one method used to confuse everyone involved as to whether the part was offshore origin, re-boxed, or some sort of low quality substitution for what used to be a high quality USA made part........

Pretty scary out there now

[Steve C.]

This will mirror what Cliff has mentioned before.....


I have talked with Harold Brookshire and Tim Goolsby quite extensively about the Comp Cams issue. I have also spoke with Nolan Jamora and Richard Iskenderian at length too. I have also talked with Comp Cam's Scooter Brothers directly about their cams.

Most of you have already figured out that the acceleration rates on the Comp lobes is very high. They also close the valves very quickly, because they are holding them off the seat for a greater number of degrees when compared to other camshafts.

This requires more spring pressure to keep the valvetrain stable.

Scooter Brothers told me, "This is a trade-off for the quicker valve action and most of these cars are not daily driven so the wear shouldn't be a huge factor..."

In fact, in 2008, the Comp #995 spring increased its rate significanty while the part number remained the same. This caused quite a few problems for the Pontiac community.

Harold Brookshire of Ultradyne contributed to the Voodoo profile design, based on a lobe profile he pateneted in the 1960s with Ultradyne. It is a fast opening profile that decelerates near the nose (to control valve bounce) and a gentle closing ramp. This profile, like the Isky 'Polydyne' are very dynamically stable at elevated rpm and require less spring pressures.

Source:

https://nastyz28.com/threads/done-wi....221553/page-7



.

[Gach]

Originally Posted by Steve C.

This will mirror what Cliff has mentioned before.....


I have talked with Harold Brookshire and Tim Goolsby quite extensively about the Comp Cams issue. I have also spoke with Nolan Jamora and Richard Iskenderian at length too. I have also talked with Comp Cam's Scooter Brothers directly about their cams.

Most of you have already figured out that the acceleration rates on the Comp lobes is very high. They also close the valves very quickly, because they are holding them off the seat for a greater number of degrees when compared to other camshafts.

This requires more spring pressure to keep the valvetrain stable.

Scooter Brothers told me, "This is a trade-off for the quicker valve action and most of these cars are not daily driven so the wear shouldn't be a huge factor..."

In fact, in 2008, the Comp #995 spring increased its rate significanty while the part number remained the same. This caused quite a few problems for the Pontiac community.

Harold Brookshire of Ultradyne contributed to the Voodoo profile design, based on a lobe profile he pateneted in the 1960s with Ultradyne. It is a fast opening profile that decelerates near the nose (to control valve bounce) and a gentle closing ramp. This profile, like the Isky 'Polydyne' are very dynamically stable at elevated rpm and require less spring pressures.

Source:

https://nastyz28.com/threads/done-wi....221553/page-7



.

So Steve c I clicked on that link and you copied that from that link verbatim. Google Steve c are you on a campaign against Comp Cam..LOL

[Gach]

Of interest , little tidbit….That was posted in 2011. you wouldn’t by any chance have a more recent one would you.

[Steve C.]

Lou,
No agenda. I posted info that supports what Cliff stated.


.

[4zpeed]

Originally Posted by Steve C.

And if interested in Harold's original UltraDyne lobes they can be ground at Bullet Racing Cams.
Ask for Tim Goolsby at ext 102, he worked with Harold for 21 years at UltraDyne.

https://www.bulletcams.com/

If they have a core on hand !

Thanks, running a 400 rather than a typical 455 allows me to twist on it a bit more so ramp speed and valve train
stability is something I consider highly and since it is a street car I want to get as many miles as smiles.

I tend to worry about the top end more than the bottom, that's something I've typically not had problems with.
On the other hand valve train wear has been a issue for me in the past, one reason I went to the Voodoo's.

Love the Voodoo's broad power band too, really works for me, that's the way uh-huh uh-huh ...



Frank

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by 4zpeed

Thanks, running a 400 rather than a typical 455 allows me to twist on it a bit more so ramp speed and valve train
stability is something I consider highly and since it is a street car I want to get as many miles as smiles.

I tend to worry about the top end more than the bottom, that's something I've typically not had problems with.
On the other hand valve train wear has been a issue for me in the past, one reason I went to the Voodoo's.

Love the Voodoo's broad power band too, really works for me, that's the way uh-huh uh-huh ...



Frank

Frank,
Remember seating velocity is not only a function of cam / ramp design, but also RPM.

Stan

[Cliff R]

"In fact, in 2008, the Comp #995 spring increased its rate significanty while the part number remained the same. This caused quite a few problems for the Pontiac community."

I was hired around that time to assemble a Pontiac 455 engine where the owner had a "falling out" with the machine shop/engine builder he was using. I chose NONE of the parts being used, just assemble, dyno and get it ready for the customer to pick-up.

It came with a complete Comp Cam kit, cam, lifters, springs and retainers. They were part number 995's. They looked really "beefy" and as I always do I pulled out the spring tester to measure them with the retainers supplied. They were 160lbs on the seat and 380lbs over the nose for the cam being used.

YIKES, a flat tappet cam with that much spring pressure in an engine that will only see maybe 5500-5600rpms. Cripe that's like having 16 fat guys standing on your pushrods!

I actually called Comp Cams tech line and asked them why so much pressure? The tech told me they will loose ten percent of their pressure during "run-in". I asked him if that was before or after they knocked all the lobes off the cam?

I ended up getting some different springs with considerably LESS seat and open pressure and the engine was fine on the dyno and far as I know still running out there someplace......

[Gach]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

"In fact, in 2008, the Comp #995 spring increased its rate significanty while the part number remained the same. This caused quite a few problems for the Pontiac community."

I was hired around that time to assemble a Pontiac 455 engine where the owner had a "falling out" with the machine shop/engine builder he was using. I chose NONE of the parts being used, just assemble, dyno and get it ready for the customer to pick-up.

It came with a complete Comp Cam kit, cam, lifters, springs and retainers. They were part number 995's. They looked really "beefy" and as I always do I pulled out the spring tester to measure them with the retainers supplied. They were 160lbs on the seat and 380lbs over the nose for the cam being used.

YIKES, a flat tappet cam with that much spring pressure in an engine that will only see maybe 5500-5600rpms. Cripe that's like having 16 fat guys standing on your pushrods!

I actually called Comp Cams tech line and asked them why so much pressure? The tech told me they will loose ten percent of their pressure during "run-in". I asked him if that was before or after they knocked all the lobes off the cam?

I ended up getting some different springs with considerably LESS seat and open pressure and the engine was fine on the dyno and far as I know still running out there someplace......

So what did you end up with for seat and open pressure with your springs ?

[Formulajones]

Lunati has a VooDoo 262 that beat the Xtreme Energy 262 on the dyno. Every cam tried was at least 10 ft lbs of torque and 10 BHP better than the Xtreme Energy equivalent. I know the VooDoo 268 beat the XE268 by 10ftlbs at 3000, 16 BHP at peak, and then at 5800, as both cams were going down, we have 28 more BHP than the XE. The entire VooDoo line also does not have any valve train noise or clatter, just a good exhaust note. I drove the VooDoo 268 in a 88 Camaro around Bowling Green for a little bit--a couple of days--and I was very impressed with the throttle response, etc.
VooDoo 262---part #60102
262/268 at .006
219/227 at .050
.468/.489 valve lift
112 LSA.
VooDoo 268---part #60103
268/276 at .006
227/233 at .050
.489/.504 valve lift
110 LSA
These are not updated Xtreme Energy cams, but a whole new ballgame.
These are 'Cams Done Right!'

UDHarold

[steve25]

I take issue with post 15.
I think Pontiac / GM was the first back in 67 to use a computer to assist in Cam design in terms of the 041 Cam then to be used in the 68 1/2. RA2 round port 400.

[Cliff R]

"So what did you end up with for seat and open pressure with your springs ?"

It's been so long I can't remember but I do know they were down around 120lbs on the seat. Might have been Crower 68405's since we were using 1.700" installed height.....

[4zpeed]

Originally Posted by steve25

I take issue with post 15.
I think Pontiac / GM was the first back in 67 to use a computer to assist in Cam design in terms of the 041 Cam then to be used in the 68 1/2. RA2 round port 400.

X2 - I've read the first computer designed camshaft was indeed the 041.


Frank