[DOC]

you can always pull the distributer and manually prime the engine to see if any pressure comes up. if the drill starts pulling hard I would check against another gauge for pressure. would also check all the rocker arms to see if any have a bent/ missing pushrod.

[chiphead]

I would also check for a lifter that hopped out of place or a popped-out galley plug before I committed to pulling the whole engine.

["QUICK-SILVER"]

Originally Posted by DOC

you can always pull the distributer and manually prime the engine to see if any pressure comes up..

Absolutely the first thing to do. Pull the distributor and see if the pump still works.
If it does, drain the oil and look or snake a wire in the drain plug hole to see if the pickup fell off.
Pumps are submerged but with the pickup off you get the bathtub (vortec) drain effect of the little tornado of air getting sucked in the pump. This will cause the oil pressure to fluctuate.

#2 rod is end of the line as far as oil PRESSURE feeding the rods. BUT, with a complete sudden loss of oil flow...Rear main, #7 and #8 rods are the FIRST to do without oil.

If the oil pump is working and the pickup is intact...I'ld be terribly tempted to overfill the crankcase with oil and fire the engine up. If all it is is a piece of trash stuck in the pressure relief valve, you could get lucky by reving the engine cold and shoving the valve open enough to let the trash wash out. Stuck open pressure relief will make oil pressure drop down. But that doesn't mean there's not any flow. Down enough for lifters to tick doesn't always mean the crank is being starved for oil.

Just hate to see a one day job turn into a major event.

And yes I do believe in miracles.
Clay

[steve25]

I agree with everything above, but for him , where he lives and with the cost of shipping even small parts , I would want to do this job only once and not have bearing(s) fail latter on .
This brings things full circle back to pulling the pan to check Bearings no?

[dmac]

You could say that because of where he lives, and the difficulty of tearing the motor apart, he should check all other possibilities first. If he could get by just by lifting the motor enough to drop the pan, he might not even need to drain the radiator.

["QUICK-SILVER"]

Originally Posted by glhs#116

So, it's starting to cool down a bit here. It was maybe 90s last night instead of the usual 100s. Car running better of course. But I noticed that oil pressure was fluctuating a bit. But mostly it was where it always is so I just sort of kept an eye on it. After a few successful tests of the ratchet shifter (nice to have that working) I was gently turning onto another road to head home when I saw oil pressure zero. I'm ashamed to say that it was such a shock I didn't kill it immediately because it was like one of those dreams where things are unreal. But I started to faintly hear that ol' low oil pressure lifter sound starting and I knew it was real and killed it. Maybe ten maybe fifteen seconds.

IMO Complete oil pump failure and the valve train would have been thrashing and raising cane instead of 'faintly hear' after he saw the guage at zero.

Only time I've had a pressure relief valve hang open was coming back up the return road at the dragstrip. Heard the lifters clicking then saw the big zero on the guage. Everything was fine in that engine. Just had to repair the pump. It was still pushing oil through the engine. Just not enough to keep the lifters full. Next morning cold, the engine actually had a little oil pressure (lifters shut up) till oil started to heat up.

Got my fingers crossed for Sam. Have lots of respect for the guy.
Clay

[Half-Inch Stud]

...is that the only Pontiac V8 in Qatar?

[F ROCK]

90+ degrees outside. Did someone already ask what weight oil is in there?
How old/ How many miles since rebuild? Did someone already ask?

It's not unusual for a well seasoned, 10w30 lubed, Pontiac engine to drop oil pressure in the 90+ degree heat.

[lust4speed]

Originally Posted by steve25

I have never seen a factory plug pop out, not that it could not take place though, the odds must be dam low!

I never did either, then saw a popped plug last year and another one this year. Both times it was a home build and the guys didn't stake around the plugs. The good news is neither suffered bearing or other lasting damage. Timing cover off and a new plug put in place with both sides firmly staked got them back in business. Also both drivers heard the lifter noise before looking at their gauges and shutting down their engines.

Last winter was also the first time I saw tabs sheared off the oil pump shaft with later investigation not finding anything in the oil pump. This won't be the problem this time since the owner mentioned that he was a little overzealous on the throttle with a cold engine and previous night time temps near freezing.

[glhs#116]

Well, the UPS man is supposed to deliver today. Seems as good a time as any to ask a few things that have been bugging me:

1. Rear main cap. If I break this free I kill the crank seal, yes? And it sounds like a hell of a procedure for "rope" seal (which I think is all I will have materials on hand for). Check the others and if it looks good leave rear main?
2. With ARP fasteners are the torque values still as per the factory manual? Or are there different values for ARP (i.e. I'm figuring they might stretch less)? No, I don't have a bolt stretch gauge.

I ordered a Summit baffled pan. It meant I didn't pay twice for shipping. At least one review said it is thicker metal than stock and it doesn't need painting. I just couldn't get past the idea that there could be sandblasting sand in nooks and crannies of my used pan that I wouldn't be able to clean out but that would float free in the oil. So I bit the bullet. BOP seal would have been nice but I have a pan gasket set (traditional) already and that would have been a separate shipment. Couldn't justify it. I really wanted to have the bearing shells in this order but it drove the price up and, heck, I'm hoping they are fine, right? So, if I do find trouble I will have to wait and order bearings then.

A hand rotate to TDC shouldn't hurt at this point, right? Assuming it is hand rotatable. It will sure make it easier to fire up afterwards... Another option, since I'm not planning on taking the top apart, is to remove the distributor cap rather than the whole distributor. Then the timing arrangement should stay where it is on its own.

Sam

[steve25]

I suppose the last thing you have listed here is the first thing you should do!

If the car is a automatic then first unbolt the torque converter and slide it back towards the Trans.

Next back off on the tension on all the belts.


Next pull out all the spark plugs and see if and how well the motor spins over by means of putting a 15/16" socket on the Balancer bolt with a torque wrench and checking that the Crank breaks free and keeps spinning with less then 45 lbs being applied.

If you see more then 45 lbs being needed your likely to need to get the Crank cut and you know where that all leads!

[glhs#116]

Progress of a sort

[dataway]

Kudos to you bro .. making it happen on the other side of the world.

I still say we should take up a collection

[steve25]

Sam ,Please tell us what you find before that new pan gets sealed back on!

[glhs#116]

Getting closer to the moment of truth. I put the car in the air today, replaced the transmission mount in the truck (since I'll be hogging the big jack to hold up the Pontiac's gearbox for a while), also squared up the mounting bosses on the oil pump and flattened the bottom plate with my big file. I inspected everything inside but unlike some, mine was spotlessly clean inside with a nice film of oil so I didn't do anything else inside. My oil feed hole was also in nice shape. I'm not replacing the checkball with a smaller one or anything like that.






Sam

[steve25]

That's the new pump ground level that way out of the box?

[johnta1]

That's the new pump ground level that way out of the box?

He wrote this:

also squared up the mounting bosses on the oil pump and flattened the bottom plate with my big file.

Have you checked to see if the hoist will roll under the car with the jack stands where they are?

[steve25]

I did not read, just looking , thanks!

Sam , also check the gear to top plate clearance, it should be .003", if not sand the pump body on some 280 grit wet ot dry paper lubed up with some soapy water.
Also check the bottom and top of the gears for sharp edges

[grivera]

Originally Posted by steve25

Sam , also check the gear to top plate clearance, it should be .003", if not sand the pump body on some 280 grit wet ot dry paper lubed up with some soapy water.

In a figure 8 pattern to keep it even...

[Blued and Painted]

.002 will take substantial effort to remove by hand.
U may want to use a large Mill Bastard file to get thru the rough milling marks.