[gtofreek]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Thanks Paul and Steve. My only concern with the engine is I am going to race it for a season or two while I am building my 540 IAII. 73 block,billet splayed caps, bottom filled, std bore so i can take it .035 over. I was not going to go through the expense of the caps unless I could find a std bore.
Anyway its a cast Eagle crank. The crank is all good for a cast. Whittmores last engine. He ground it .010-.010 and polished the trust. As is it was way off. .001 tapper on the rods and bent .004, new. But its all balanced with billet steel rods and Ross 4.155 FTs.
I would like to put a steel crank in but thats 1200$ by the time you are done with re balancing and maybe grinding.
Any of you guys see a problem in pushing 650 HP through it. 350 High Ports and Crower SR. >667 .270-.275 108.
I dont plan on running it past 6500 RPM.

The last time I used an Eagle cast crank, it was in an engine making around 600-650 HP. That engine ran great right up to the point where the crank broke in 3 pieces at the 3'rd rod journal back and split the block in two. All the bearings on that crank looked good, so it was just a matter of the Chinese cast iron couldn't hold the power. That was the last time I used one of those cranks. I just don't trust them anymore. I'm quit certain a factory crank would have held up just fine in that engine. This was back in the early 2000's when these cast Eagles were the only option before all the forged cranks came out. Maybe they have gotten better, I don't know. Never been willing to try another.

["QUICK-SILVER"]

Originally Posted by Tim Corcoran

I couldn't find part 2 of the video showing the lifter test? Anyone find it?

Said he was going to try and get it done today.

Clay

[Bruce Meyer]

Originally Posted by gtofreek

The last time I used an Eagle cast crank, it was in an engine making around 600-650 HP. That engine ran great right up to the point where the crank broke in 3 pieces at the 3'rd rod journal back and split the block in two. All the bearings on that crank looked good, so it was just a matter of the Chinese cast iron couldn't hold the power. That was the last time I used one of those cranks. I just don't trust them anymore. I'm quit certain a factory crank would have held up just fine in that engine. This was back in the early 2000's when these cast Eagles were the only option before all the forged cranks came out. Maybe they have gotten better, I don't know. Never been willing to try another.

Ive seen several engines taken out at the dragstrip by failing Eagle cranks when they first came out. The only thing those Eagle cast cranks are good for is maybe a mailbox stand. I don't know why anyone would use one. Time Bomb!

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by gtofreek

The last time I used an Eagle cast crank, it was in an engine making around 600-650 HP. That engine ran great right up to the point where the crank broke in 3 pieces at the 3'rd rod journal back and split the block in two. All the bearings on that crank looked good, so it was just a matter of the Chinese cast iron couldn't hold the power. That was the last time I used one of those cranks. I just don't trust them anymore. I'm quit certain a factory crank would have held up just fine in that engine. This was back in the early 2000's when these cast Eagles were the only option before all the forged cranks came out. Maybe they have gotten better, I don't know. Never been willing to try another.

Well THANKS PAUL !!. You just cost me a grand. The crank is one of the first ones that came out, its that old. All that was available back then. Paid 450 freaking dollars for it from Indian Adventures.
You know, I do have a crank that I was told it was steel. Its a Crankshaft Specialist crank I bought on E bay years ago. Its was .3.25 main 4.25 stroke. Had them turn it down to 3" main and weld the thrust and machine it, profile counterweights and gun drill. Its 65lbs now.
I can not certify what it is made of. This thing has square cheeks like a 455 crank. Not seen any forgings with that. It has a Crankshaft Specialist stamp on a counterweight but was turned off in the lathe for lightening.
I am a welder and the thrust was welded at CS and the guy who did the welding would know if he tried to weld on iron with wire/rod meant for steel. If he had to weld the cast iron that gets a little more tricky. But it was over 10 years ago. The whole crank is shiny as can be. Where they profiled counterweights it looks like chrome. Guy at CS said it resembled a billet but I doubt that is true. Have some pics, maybe I will post.
But at any rate, even if it is a fully prepped 455 turned down/welded crank, its better than a cast Eagle. I would think a PMD crank would do well at 650 HP.
I can not run that Eagle now. Take a chance of wasting a std bore 73 400 block with splayed billet caps, I don't think so. Whittmores last engine.
BTW, I remember Dan had the crank but never got around to rebalancing the whole thing before he passed. But said he had a "stroke checker" tool and said it was actually 4.23 stroke. Would I have to deck the block a bit lower if I run it ?
Sorry for the hyjack. Maybe I will start a thread on it. Buyng a new Scat forging would put my project past April, start of the season. If I can make the CS crank work (rebalance rotating assembly) that might make the best sense.

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Well THANKS PAUL !!. You just cost me a grand. The crank is one of the first ones that came out, its that old. All that was available back then. Paid 450 freaking dollars for it from Indian Adventures.
You know, I do have a crank that I was told it was steel. Its a Crankshaft Specialist crank I bought on E bay years ago. Its was .3.25 main 4.25 stroke. Had them turn it down to 3" main and weld the thrust and machine it, profile counterweights and gun drill. Its 65lbs now.
I can not certify what it is made of. This thing has square cheeks like a 455 crank. Not seen any forgings with that. It has a Crankshaft Specialist stamp on a counterweight but was turned off in the lathe for lightening.
I am a welder and the thrust was welded at CS and the guy who did the welding would know if he tried to weld on iron with wire/rod meant for steel. If he had to weld the cast iron that gets a little more tricky. But it was over 10 years ago. The whole crank is shiny as can be. Where they profiled counterweights it looks like chrome. Guy at CS said it resembled a billet but I doubt that is true. Have some pics, maybe I will post.
But at any rate, even if it is a fully prepped 455 turned down/welded crank, its better than a cast Eagle. I would think a PMD crank would do well at 650 HP.
I can not run that Eagle now. Take a chance of wasting a std bore 73 400 block with splayed billet caps, I don't think so. Whittmores last engine.
BTW, I remember Dan had the crank but never got around to rebalancing the whole thing before he passed. But said he had a "stroke checker" tool and said it was actually 4.23 stroke. Would I have to deck the block a bit lower if I run it ?
Sorry for the hyjack. Maybe I will start a thread on it. Buyng a new Scat forging would put my project past April, start of the season. If I can make the CS crank work (rebalance rotating assembly) that might make the best sense.

Dragncar,
4.25" - 4.23" = 0.02" but only half of that is going up. So if you are now zero deck that should put you at 0.010" down in the hole. So you could just reduce your head gasket thickness by 0.010"

Stan

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Dragncar,
4.25" - 4.23" = 0.02" but only half of that is going up. So if you are now zero deck that should put you at 0.010" down in the hole. So you could just reduce your head gasket thickness by 0.010"

Stan

I am going to need to mock it up and double check everything. Sometimes I ask questions and already pretty much know the answer. But there are some highly experienced machinists/engine builders who post here. Their opinions never hurt.
I have a 1016 Fel Pro set, think they are .040 or so. Cometic makes a .027. Might get close enough.
Maybe someone can give the actual 1160 thickness.

[Navy Horn 16]

I've been running Howard's roller hyd lifters.. They have always worked well, but been noisy. I switched from Mobile1 10w30 to AMSOIL 10w30 Z-Rod, for no reason other than it was on sale and I knew the zinc wouldn't hurt anything. My lifter noise went away pretty much instantly.

It doesn't make any sense to me that a high zinc oil designed to protect flat tappet cams would make noisy roller lifters suddenly quiet. I do know that I've stumbled into enough problems, so I'm not going to argue with an accidental solution. Give it a shot.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Navy Horn 16

I've been running Howard's roller hyd lifters.. They have always worked well, but been noisy. I switched from Mobile1 10w30 to AMSOIL 10w30 Z-Rod, for no reason other than it was on sale and I knew the zinc wouldn't hurt anything. My lifter noise went away pretty much instantly.

It doesn't make any sense to me that a high zinc oil designed to protect flat tappet cams would make noisy roller lifters suddenly quiet. I do know that I've stumbled into enough problems, so I'm not going to argue with an accidental solution. Give it a shot.

That's what I also found by accident with a flat tappet cam I ran, using the same viscosity, that I mentioned earlier. I'm not sure of the reason other than the additive packages vary among manufactures, not the zinc specifically but the additive package as a whole.

[ponjohn]

Originally Posted by Tim Corcoran

I couldn't find part 2 of the video showing the lifter test? Anyone find it?

I don't think he has shared it yet.

[chiphead]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

That's what I also found by accident with a flat tappet cam I ran, using the same viscosity, that I mentioned earlier. I'm not sure of the reason other than the additive packages vary among manufactures, not the zinc specifically but the additive package as a whole.

Part of that is the oil weight ratings are a mile wide. Some 10W30s thin out to almost 20 wt, and others are closer to 40wt when they get hot. So if you change oils and the actual viscosity is different, I would expect changes in lifter noise and some small change in hot oil pressure.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by chiphead

Part of that is the oil weight ratings are a mile wide. Some 10W30s thin out to almost 20 wt, and others are closer to 40wt when they get hot. So if you change oils and the actual viscosity is different, I would expect changes in lifter noise and some small change in hot oil pressure.

That's why I talked about different additive packages and cold flow properties as being some of the possible reasons.

When I found this out I didn't change viscosity. At least not as they are printed on the labels. I went from 20w-50 Valvoline to 20w-50 Amsoil, and the lifter noise stopped.
I've also run 20w-50 Amsoil with both styles of Comp hydraulic roller lifters with absolutely no noise issues at all which is totally opposite of what everyone says, apparently including Comp, that you need 10-30 in these things.
So it has me thinking it's not really as much about viscosity as it is the type of oil being run.
I'm not suggesting change for anyone, I just know what has worked for us. I know 10-30 would also be just fine, I've experimented with that viscosity in a couple cars. It wouldn't surprise me if other high end brands like Brad Penn or Royal Purple or ??? would work just fine too with the higher viscosities.

[Stan Weiss]

Without an engine dyno or track testing there is no way to know if these oil changes caused a difference in bleed down rate and lifter / valve motion and a change in performance.

Stan

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Without an engine dyno or track testing there is no way to know if these oil changes caused a difference in bleed down rate and lifter / valve motion and a change in performance.

Stan

Agree, I wasn't speaking of bleed down or performance, my discovery was more cave man, and by accident I might add. They just simply stopped ticking. It went from noisy, which I drove like that for years, to silence, when I switched from 20-50 VR1 to 20-50 Amsoil.

I wasn't expecting it and didn't change brands of oil because of it. I was just pleasantly surprised.

[gtofreek]

The Amsoil is probably holding it's viscosity better, therefore not letting as much oil slip past the inner plunger while running.

Oil gets thinner when hot, no matter what it's viscosity is. Some oils get thinner than others. Get 20/50 oil up to 200° and it pours like water. I think the Amsoil is just not getting as thin as the Valvoline you used before.

[64speed]

So if anybody followed Caster1’s build you saw that he made some serious power out of the 462 that he had my machinist an engine builder build for him. It’s all been documented in a thread posted on her in the last two weeks, anyway Paul is custom ordering me a Lunati Voodoo cam he thinks will be perfect for my build. I contacted my machinist to ask him what roller lifters he had used in Tommy’s build and he said he used Erson same as the cam. I looked them up and the price point is about halfway between the high and low prices for roller lifters. Anyone have experience with Erson lifters? I want my engine to be a quiet as possible. Roller lifter tick scares me not from a performance standpoint I just want the engine to sound like a sewing machine not a typewriter. My machinist is doing the lifter bore mod.