[Skip Fix]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

I'm getting to a point where I don't have the patience or time to do the assembly anymore. My original reasoning for doing the assembly was two-fold, to make sure it was right, and the learning/fun factor. It's amazing how many shops, well known ones too, give stuff the 'good enough' treatment. (And when many times it's not)

Paul, I wish like heck you were closer to me, I would have you do my next 3 engines. I like the fact that you're precise, professional, and there isn't a lick of 'smoke & mirrors' with your work. Total disclosure provides confidence to the customer, thank you.

Thing with sleeving IMO is that it's hard to find someone that will do it right.

.

I agree with all things there esp even good shops not always doing it as picky as I am, and I wish Paul was closer.

409 I bought in college to replace the one I hurt had a sleeve, leaked water in the oil trashed the motor. Shop I bought it from never mentioned it only blew a head gasket and surfaced the heads-which he had.

[vidguy]

I'vr heard the '67's were the block to have also.. First year of that design, over engineered, and such.

"I'm getting to a point where I don't have the patience or time to do the assembly anymore. My original reasoning for doing the assembly was two-fold, to make sure it was right, and the learning/fun factor. It's amazing how many shops, well known ones too, give stuff the 'good enough' treatment. (And when many times it's not)"

I ditto that. I love doing it.. But I do want it to just get done.. I trust Paul to do it exactly right..

[hurryinhoosier62]

When the time comes to build my '59, Paul will be doing the machine and cryo work. I don't care how much the freight costs: I want the work done correctly. Paul will do it correctly.

[68azbird]

Friend had an engine shipped from east coast and used fastenal
Supposedly they were fair priced.

[lust4speed]

Around here it's time to break out the champagne if the sonic report on a block comes back with .203" as the thinnest wall.

Worse block was a '66 GTO block that was running. It measured .030" over on tear down and we had it checked before ordering a stroker kit. Without being touched it had one wall come in at .034" and the one next to it at .036". Plans changed and it became the guy's base for a coffee table.

[ponyakr]

Originally Posted by 68azbird

Friend had an engine shipped from east coast and used fastenal
Supposedly they were fair priced.

This got me to thinkin. With all the Pontiac engine builders scattered around, I've wondered how much it would cost to ship your engine, or have a crate engine shipped to you.

So, I just got a quote for shipping a crate engine from Len Williams, in OK, to me in North, LA. I don't need an engine, but just wanted to know about engine shipping costs. I entered 500lbs and need a lift gate at both ends.

The price quote I got was $237, form R+L Carriers.

http://www2.rlcarriers.com/default.a...ookieSupport=1

So, for those of you who have had an engine shipped, how much did it cost ? Is there any particular carrier that consistently ships engines cheaper than others ? Anybody know if the big engine shippers, like maybe Butler, KRE and others, have a deal with any particular carriers, to have their engines shipped a little cheaper ? Anybody have experiences shipping engines on a regular basis, who can give some info here ?

[tom s]

I have used Uship.com com on a few engines.Tom

[Dragncar]

This 67 block stuff seems to line up exactly with what Dan Whittmore told me years ago about them. He worked at a Pontiac dealership back in the day.
66 was the last year of the 389. Dealerships were getting a lot of "come backs" with 66 389s from running hot. They had thin cylinder walls. Pontiac did not want their new "400" to have the same problems so the first 400 had cylinder walls a bit on the thick side.
To add to the point, my parents car when I was growing up was a 62 convertible Bonneville. Then a 66 Catalina station wagon. My dad rebuilt the engine after 2 trips to OK from CA. Engine failed with well over 200K miles driving up a long hill, overheated, blown head gasket and cracked cylinder walls.
Another note, the 70 455 in GTOs had 10-1 CR. Pontiac got lots of comebacks from broken pistons due to cheapskates not running premium gas. They had cast pistons.
Was a issue for Pontiac not building the LS6 killer 455 they had in the works. Dan laid his eyes on a 90cc round port heads with the pushrod tubes like the SD455. The engine was to have those 10-1 CR heads, forged rods and pistons, 4 bolt block, RAIV cam, intake, carb and ex manifolds. Would have eaten everything up on the street. Sad we never had a real performance 455 with CR. The idea for that engine became the last act of defiance 73-74 SD 455 engine.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by lust4speed

Around here it's time to break out the champagne if the sonic report on a block comes back with .203" as the thinnest wall.

Worse block was a '66 GTO block that was running. It measured .030" over on tear down and we had it checked before ordering a stroker kit. Without being touched it had one wall come in at .034" and the one next to it at .036". Plans changed and it became the guy's base for a coffee table.

Mick, have you ever seen evidence of cavitation in Pontiac blocks? That COULD explain why you were seeing cylinder walls so thin. When I worked at JET, our minimum thickness for a HP engine was .140. .034? Good God, that's THIN..

[hurryinhoosier62]

Did a comparison:cast iron cooking vessels. Staub (investment cast)-.1574; Lodge (sand cast)-.1578. Light to medium duty aircraft structures are constructed of .030-.045 aluminum (2024T3). Can you see WHY saying "The factory did it" makes my blood run cold?
The factory released a block with cylinder walls 6 human hairs (.005-.006) thick...

[vidguy]

Originally Posted by ponyakr

This got me to thinkin. With all the Pontiac engine builders scattered around, I've wondered how much it would cost to ship your engine, or have a crate engine shipped to you.

So, I just got a quote for shipping a crate engine from Len Williams, in OK, to me in North, LA. I don't need an engine, but just wanted to know about engine shipping costs. I entered 500lbs and need a lift gate at both ends.

The price quote I got was $237, form R+L Carriers.

http://www2.rlcarriers.com/default.a...ookieSupport=1

So, for those of you who have had an engine shipped, how much did it cost ? Is there any particular carrier that consistently ships engines cheaper than others ? Anybody know if the big engine shippers, like maybe Butler, KRE and others, have a deal with any particular carriers, to have their engines shipped a little cheaper ? Anybody have experiences shipping engines on a regular basis, who can give some info here ?

I used Freightquote.com They gave me good personal service over the phone. Filling out the info I thought I was just creating an online account but they actually gave me a huge credit limit and billed me only after the shipment arrived.

He matched the price i was looking for when I told them I got a quote elsewhere for $240.00 using Class 70.
Shipment was from Pleasanton CA to Tuscon AZ. About 850 mi.

My shipping crate weighed 305 here on our scale at work with the block, flexplate, crank in it. (I may have sent the intake also I don't recall.)

[gtofreek]

Here's the pistons we got from CP.

[gtofreek]

Here's some of the block before shot peening.







After shot peening.







Now I'm ready to machine it.

[vidguy]

Those pistons are really nice.. I think the Speedpro Forged Pistons I used in my 455 weighed about 670.. Those are really light.

The block was sad.. I painted it orange way back then ('87) before I cared..
It looks really good now. The front is not pitted at all.

I never noticed the studs on the mains that you pointed out.. Not sure why those were used.

Thanks for the update Paul.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Nice looking pistons, Paul. Lightweight as well.

[lust4speed]

Originally Posted by vidguy

...I never noticed the studs on the mains that you pointed out.. Not sure why those were used...Thanks for the update Paul.

Someone was just in a hurry finding something to keep the main caps in place. The bolts with the studs are simply the head bolts that held the drip rail down in place. Right now they are sitting at the 2nd main, and the pan wouldn't sit down flush on the block -- so they weren't there when the engine was running. After sorting the bolts out to their rightful place and you end up short, it would be a great excuse to go with ARP studs on the mains.

[gtofreek]

I have plenty of nice factory main bolts to replace those studded bolts with.

I just stuck those studded bolts back in any cap to hold them in place.

[gtofreek]

OK, got it align honed, and decked. Here are some pics.

Block in align hone cabinet.



Cleaned all the threads out with a thread file[chaser], not a tap. Taps remove metal, and make it more likely to pull threads later on. I avoid running taps through them except to bottom tap for studs.



Filed all the burrs off the pan rail and main cap registers.



Then I knock the burrs off of both sides of the main caps.



As well as the parting line face.



Then I cut the front side of each cap to establish a 90° angle from the parting face, so the parting face can be cut without influencing taper into the bore area.

[gtofreek]

Caps after being cut.





Then I set the cap on a dial indicator so I can gauge how much I cut off the parting face.



Then I grind the face to remove around .004".



I installed all the dowel pins so they stock out of the block about 3/8". This gave good engagement with the caps. The caps fit nice and snug. I can't believe I forgot to take pics of the dowel pin install.

[gtofreek]

Then I cleaned up the bolts from this:



To this.



Can't stand dirty bolts!



Caps all torqued down to 100 ft. lbs., front 4, and 120 ft. lbs/, rear, with 30 wt. oil.



We were about .0035"-.004" small to start.