[Cliff R]

Look at the numbers we got on the dyno with the Old Faithful Clone HR cam on a 114LSA compared to the XR276HR cam in a very similar engine.

The bigger cam idled better, and made more power at every rpm, nearly 90 MORE HP, and over 500ft lbs torque clear across the loaded rpm range.

With the bigger cam on a wider LSA peak HP moved up almost 1000rpms compared to power ending abruptly at 4900rpm's with the smaller HR cam.

Before someone says "I never plan on revving my 455 that high, it's just a "street" engine", keep in mind that at 5000rpms we could still shift the engine with the bigger cam in it and make good track runs, and enjoy nearly 519ft lbs torque @ 5000rpms vs 441ft lbs the smaller cam was making.

I do this all the time with my own engine, shift at 5000rpms for all track runs, and it only slows down about half a tenth or so compared to shifting it clear up at 5800rpms. Basically the car runs good using the broad/flat torque curve, and there is no need to "grind" up the engine with a much higher shift point.

I also use that deal to my advantage at the track. If I'm not getting the guy covered I'll "buzz" the engine a little harder and push him out on the top side, never giving him a chance to back out of it and get the win light.

Short shifting not only saves the engine some, but it also helps me slow the car down to stay roll bar legal, as flat out it will run almost into the 10's in good air, and really low 11's in the "heat".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zVdoLR-VzM


.....Cliff

[tpssonic]

"Look at the numbers we got on the dyno with the Old Faithful Clone HR cam on a 114LSA compared to the XR276HR cam in a very similar engine."

Cliff, do you have the dyno sheets for the pulls? I don't see them.

Thanks,

Tony

[Cliff R]

Yes, I have the dyno sheets, but haven't had the time to figure out how to scan them into the computer and post them.....Cliff

[Nicks67GTO]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

Yes, I have the dyno sheets, but haven't had the time to figure out how to scan them into the computer and post them.....Cliff

Snap a picture with your smartphone {assuming you have one}. Download the photobucket app. Upload your pics to photobucket. Use the IMG code to copy and paste here.

thats how I get it done

[Blued and Painted]

[/URL]

[78w72]

dont need photobucket for basic smaller pics, just use the pic upload tool here.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by Blued and Painted

[/URL]

Dogs rule!

[Blued and Painted]

It's a pic of an Old Dog (Cliff and B&P) who prefers the old milk bones vs. the new Organic dog snacks

[Cliff R]

I'll get the pics of the dyno sheets and put them up later this week, most likely on Friday....Cliff

[Dave Bisschop]

Originally Posted by 71 T/A

It would be interesting to compare the Stump Puller and OF cams with iron vs. aluminum heads to see which cam works better with which head.

I can't say that I've done the test back to back on the same engine the same day, but I've had enough of these combo's on the dyno that I feel I can answer that question to some degree. The "old faithful" cam was designed primarily for our ported aluminum heads and came about after testing a number of lobe configurations including running a single pattern 236/236 using the intake lobe we use on the OF cam on both the intake and exhaust which was down about 15hp over the current 236/245 we use. The idea behind the "stump puller" was a cam designed to work well with our ported cast iron heads, cast iron intake and RA/HO exhaust manifolds. I've run both cams in many iron headed as well as aluminum headed combo's.

With the cast iron headed engines the power difference with everything else being the same is 10hp or less with similar torque peak numbers. The power curve is produced at a lower rpm with the SP cam and the vac. at idle is about 3-5" higher with the SP. Now if you were running a Torker II and headers there might (I doubt it would be much) be a bit more of a spread but I haven't had an iron headed engine on the dyno with a Torker II for a lot of years now as the demand for more hp while maintaining a stock appearance only seems to be getting stronger. When it comes to ported aluminum heads, the difference in power is 30-50hp more with the OF cam depending on which intake is used.

I always like to look at the entire drivetrain combo and application before making a cam recommendation as more hp on the dyno doesn't necessarily mean a quicker car.

Hope this info helps

[Matt Meaney]

I have to wonder if the peak hp/torque numbers, low e.t.'s, and "makes more power every place" comment along with a 3-3500K convertor, scare people off. I imagine the "it'll never see the strip" crowd, thinking it's a race motor that would be near undriveable on the street. it would have to idle too high, not make any vacuum, overheat in town, load up/stall at a stop light, exhaust fumes kill ya, get 5mpg on a good day, couldn't run pump gas with that much compression, not move until it reached the 3K stall speed, have to adjust the valve lash weekly, and so on and so forth.

imo, it's just as important to let everyone know just how docile and user friendly these things are. things like idle rpm, vacuum produced, off idle and light throttle driveability, how it won't die if put in front of a stock convertor and 3.08's (just won't accelerate as quickly. one mans stone, is another's rocket ship.) can be driven/parked in traffic without any major issues. and on a related note how static compression does more than just add X% of power per point. you guys get the idea.

I know that's a lot to ask, but it's important stuff when you want to cruise and enjoy your car.

[Cliff R]

On purpose I have built my entire combination to be very "mild" at a glance, and dead solid reliable on a steady diet of pump fuel.

It drives fine on the street, idles nearly smooth with 13.5" vacuum at 750rpm's. It NEVER even acts like it wants to run hot, and it gets excellent fuel economy for "normal" driving. Since I have a good converter, not some "loose as a goose" generic POS, you'd never even know it's in there till you head to the track and find good traction. Otherwise it runs and acts pretty much like a "stock" converter for "normal" driving.

Drag strip performance is good, below is a time slip from a trip to our local track last year......Cliff

[ta man]

My combo is similar to Cliffs,very docile car,I tell most people its like driving a stock 301 powered 80 Trans Am,just stay light on the throttle,never runs hot,idles at 850 to 900 rpms,pretty decent on gas.When I go to the dragstrip there are usually many louder,rowdy street cars...Think I've been beat three times in the last four years by a street car,my buddy Andy's 78 Trans Am,a 600hp twin turbo s65 Benz,and a supercharged Mustang....the loud cars get left at the line and I never see them..
Cliff you got me beat to the 1/8th by quite a bit...heres my best time with a bit of slippage at the line...note the mph at the 1/8th!My time is on the right..not bad for a 3900lb car with 3.08 gearing!

[i82much]

Originally Posted by ta man

My combo is similar to Cliffs,very docile car,I tell most people its like driving a stock 301 powered 80 Trans Am,just stay light on the throttle,never runs hot,idles at 850 to 900 rpms,pretty decent on gas.When I go to the dragstrip there are usually many louder,rowdy street cars...Think I've been beat three times in the last four years by a street car,my buddy Andy's 78 Trans Am,a 600hp twin turbo s65 Benz,and a supercharged Mustang....the loud cars get left at the line and I never see them..
Cliff you got me beat to the 1/8th by quite a bit...heres my best time with a bit of slippage at the line...note the mph at the 1/8th!My time is on the right..not bad for a 3900lb car with 3.08 gearing!

ok bud, with a slip like that let's have a link to your build thread!

[ta man]

Originally Posted by i82much

ok bud, with a slip like that let's have a link to your build thread!

Its around...check out the new best with 3.08 gearing thread..think its there.

[Steve C.]

Mine drives fine on the street in traffic. But the idle is rowdy, I enjoy it that way and I purposly keep the idle speed at about 900 rpm. I have manual brakes with larger Wilwood Disc rotors front and rear so vacumm is not an issue. It never acts like it runs hot in traffic with the aluminium radiator. It gets crappy 10-11 mpg at a steady state highway speed even with the overdrive transmission with 600+ hp. But the big thing to point out and possibly one of the best bangs for the buck dollar wise is similar to Cliff....as he states, " Since I have a good converter, not some "loose as a goose" generic POS, you'd never even know it's in there till you head to the track and find good traction." The answer is a Continental Torque Converter in my opinion. I had one for my previous TH400 set up and Cliff helped me with the Continental converter selection now in my 200-4R transmission. Both were custom based on the torque curve off the dyno results and flash as necessary for good acceleration performance, about 3400 rpm or so, yet remain well coupled out on the open highway. My current non lock up converter has only about a 200 rpm slip at a steady state 60-70 mph highway cruise speed. Transmission fluid temp is fine with the trans cooler installed.

.

[Cliff R]

Good 1/8 mile runs and good MPH ta man. Mine runs 7.20's it the hottest part of the summer when the air is so thick you can cut it with a knife.

I seldom get outran at the track by anything that is street driven. Late last summer I went to our local track for a car show for cancer research. For $10 you could make all the runs you wanted to.

It was one of the hottest days last year, and so humid you didn't even want to walk around and look at anything. Attendance was still good, several hundred cars showed up, just about everything you could think of, 442's, GTX's, GS Buicks, and of course all sorts of Chevelle's, Nova's and Camaro's.

I watched folks make track runs all afternoon and only a couple ran into the 7's, most were much slower, even some of the "roudy" stuff. The two quickest cars I saw run that day (that were street driven) were a Ford Fairlane powered by a stroked 460 (over 500cid), and a 67 Nova with a Big Block, tubbed, and two 660 Holleys sticking up thru a huge hole in the hood.

The Fairlane ran 7.30's around 95 mph and the Nova went 7.50's. I clicked off 7.20's run after run. Folks starting coming up to the car after I'd make a run to look things over. The best part of that day was the look on their faces when they saw the Q-jet sitting on the stock intake.......PRICELESS!......Cliff

[stickboy]

Just for the record, I am running an off the shelf 110 LSA Comp XE solid roller. The car drives great, just like stated above. Idles fine with manifold vacuum advance to help smooth the idle. Clutch car so locked at 2200 on the highway, it will pull itself without the need for a downshift. No overheating, bucking, etc, and it will pull on quicker "race" cars at the track in high gear.

And I am running a Victor Manifold w/ big Holley.

[stickboy]

timeslip

[Will]

Originally Posted by Matt Meaney

I have to wonder if the peak hp/torque numbers, low e.t.'s, and "makes more power every place" comment along with a 3-3500K convertor, scare people off. ... off idle and light throttle driveability, how it won't die if put in front of a stock convertor and 3.08's (just won't accelerate as quickly. one mans stone, is another's rocket ship.) ...

I know that's a lot to ask, but it's important stuff when you want to cruise and enjoy your car.

You have a good point and this kind of thing drives me nuts. People are so afraid to use a good quality converter yet it's probably in the top 3 "best bang for the buck" mods you can make to any performance oriented car.

With a good quality converter you can truly have your cake and eat it too. I remember having conversations like this with guys - I'd tell them my car had a 3200 stall converter in it and they'd start off with the "I'd never run something like that in my car" and just wouldn't listen even when I explained that it drove just like stock in normal driving.

OTOH, it's okay if people want to be close minded about this kind of stuff. That makes it easier for those of us in the know to impress them with the great track performance of our street cars and leave them scratching their heads trying to figure out how we do it...