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#1
03-20-2000, 04:09 PM
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I have a question about (anti-)sway bars: how big is too big? I have a 1969 GTO with the stock 1" front bar and stock 7/8" rear bar. I want to reduce body lean in the corners but not at the cost of producing a harsh ride. I'm not intent in making it corner like my 1985 Corvette but I sure want it to ride softer than the Chevy does! The car is going to be used as my daily driver, and I am not too interested in auto-crossing it. The springs are stock and the tires are BFGoodrich 245/60x15 on 7" rims all around. I want to stay with rubber bushings for supple ride. I have seen front sway bars advertised in 1-1/8", 1-1/4", and 1-3/8" diameters, and rear bars in 1" to 1-3/8" diameters. Does anyone have any experiences to tell about sway-bar upgrades?
By the way, I cannot get in touch with V.S.E. (Matt Adams). Does anyone know if they're out of business? Thanks. Scott Horton hortons@vip.net |
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#2
03-20-2000, 04:09 PM
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I have a question about (anti-)sway bars: how big is too big? I have a 1969 GTO with the stock 1" front bar and stock 7/8" rear bar. I want to reduce body lean in the corners but not at the cost of producing a harsh ride. I'm not intent in making it corner like my 1985 Corvette but I sure want it to ride softer than the Chevy does! The car is going to be used as my daily driver, and I am not too interested in auto-crossing it. The springs are stock and the tires are BFGoodrich 245/60x15 on 7" rims all around. I want to stay with rubber bushings for supple ride. I have seen front sway bars advertised in 1-1/8", 1-1/4", and 1-3/8" diameters, and rear bars in 1" to 1-3/8" diameters. Does anyone have any experiences to tell about sway-bar upgrades?
By the way, I cannot get in touch with V.S.E. (Matt Adams). Does anyone know if they're out of business? Thanks. Scott Horton hortons@vip.net |
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#3
03-20-2000, 05:06 PM
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We've sold those 1 1/4" front bars and the 7/8" rear bars for years and never had not one complaint. They really have no disadvantages unless you like your car to sway!
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--------------------------- Fool Around, Get Hurt, Don't come Crying to me. |
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#4
03-20-2000, 05:20 PM
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H-O Racing makes sway bars that are 1 3/8 front and rear.The effect on ride is minimal.
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#5
03-21-2000, 03:49 PM
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Hmmm... I'm not contesting what you say about bigger bars having minimal effect on ride, but I'm wondering, if that's true, why didn't Pontiac use bigger bars in the first place?
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#6
03-21-2000, 05:17 PM
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Scott: For the same reason that they didn't use fuel injection and BFG 24560 15's. Another explanation would be cost. Still another would be peoples expectations and definition of "handling" in 1969.
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#7
03-21-2000, 07:30 PM
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John Delorean didn't believe in rear sway bars.They were only available as a option and didn't start coming standard untill he departed for Chevy.In addition to what Scott said,the tire technology didn't exist then to take advantage of the bars even if they were on the cars.Not to mention cost.
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#8
03-28-2000, 12:01 PM
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The most significant improvement you can make to your anti roll bar is to replace the end mountings stud system with a spherical joint mounting system (Like the old VSE catalogue shows). The anti roll bar (sway bar - to use the American term) does nothing until the rubber bushings have been compressed. Then they start to work. I did this to a 74 Formula, and it was the best suspension mod I ever made!
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Trev |
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#9
05-02-2000, 04:15 PM
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I have a 1965 GTO with a complete HO suspension, sway bars, bushings, springs and KYB shocks. The car handles extremely well with very little body roll on an off-ramp at 60mph with 245-50-16 tires. This is the 1-3/8" sway bar. The only thing I don't like is the springs are a little too stiff, which I plan on changing. I also have a WS6 steering box from an '81 T/A.
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1967 Firechicken, 499", Edl heads, 262/266@0.050" duration and 0.627"/0.643 lift SR cam, 3.90 gear, 28" tire, 3550#. 10.01@134.3 mph with a 1.45 60'. Still WAY under the rollbar rule. |
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#10
05-02-2000, 07:51 PM
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Scott,
Nearly everyone touched on the overall answer, but I will try to make it as clear as possible. Larger sway bars (or anti-roll, or anti-sway bars as they are known in europe) do not normally cause a significant increase in ride harshness. They mostly serve to make the car handle flatter, and change understeer/oversteer characteristics, by increasing the roll stiffness of the overall chassis without increasing the ride harshness significantly. Higher rate springs, and stiffer shocks will increase the roll stiffness too, but will certainly make the ride much harsher. Road race cars will generally have the highest overall roll stiffness that the track surface will allow, and this goal is achieved with a combination of sway bars, high rate springs and stiff shocks. So, thicker sway bars will not necessarily make the car ride like an ox cart. BTW, the Corvettes with the stiffest suspensions had much higher rate springs, not bigger sway bars. Hope this helps, and Good luck K.
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K |
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#11
05-03-2000, 12:57 AM
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As was said the sway bars ususally don't make ride stiffer except when only one wheel goes over a bump.
Down side to bigger bars and softer springs, front end dive on hard brakeing unloads rear brakes and they can do less work before locking up. Moderate front springs, moderate sway bars. Alot depends on how you drive and what feel you like . My 78 TA with stock front bar(1 1/4) 700lbs/in front springs, standard TA 5/8 rear bar and springs handles very neutral, NO brake dive so I could turn the adjustable proportioning valve up more and stop quicker. I tend to go into turns a little "hot" so I need a little more brake. Even with steel bushings throughout much nicer ride than my STOCK 1985 fullsized Bronco.
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Skip Fix 1978 Trans Am original owner 10.99 @ 124 pump gas 455 E heads, NO Bird ever! 1981 Black SE Trans Am stockish 6X 400ci, turbo 301 on a stand 1965 GTO 4 barrel 3 speed project 2004 GTO Pulse Red stock motor computer tune 13.43@103.4 1964 Impala SS 409/470ci 600 HP stroker project 1979 Camaro IAII Edelbrock head 500" 695 HP 10.33@132 3595lbs |
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#12
05-03-2000, 12:03 PM
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I'll chime in and say that you won't go too big on sway bars unless you get obscene. They don't affect ride harshness except perhaps when hitting a bump while cornering.
That's the ride harshness issue...Now you CAN go too big from a handling bias point of view. For instance, if you have oversteer already and you step up just the rear sway bar you have increased your oversteer. Here's the rule of thumb when using sway bars to tune your handling: Fix understeer with more rear sway bar or less front sway bar...fix oversteer with less rear or more front sway bar. (this comes from Herb Adam's book 'Chassis Engineering') JY ------------------ |
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#13
05-03-2000, 05:00 PM
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And a car with H-O Racings bars (1 3/8 front and rear) spanked Herb Adams(and everyone elses) car in a suspension shoot out.
[This message has been edited by Cobrabill (edited 05-03-2000).] |
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