[Jay S]

Originally Posted by Murf

Yes, I did. I kinda like adjusting them with a feeler gauge like the directions say.. Easy & seems kinda reassuring actually gauging them. Sound silly don’t I?

Anyway they seem to have done their thing. I’ve now got clickey lifters & 4 inches more vacuum at idle. I hope the driving manners are improved too.

Murf

Lol. Sounds like you should have took the Rhoads lifters I had in the race trailer down at GB after all. I think those I had were the 2148 pro version though. If the clacking gets to loud tighten the lash and find a happy place. The intake and exhaust lash do not need to be the same either. If you want to keep the vacuum increase and better driving with quieter operation start by tightening the exhaust side only. Or if needed you can always zero last them cold for dead quiet and have a anti pump up lifter. Good luck Murf.

[Murf]

Hi Jay! I used the V- Pro. I misspoke in my last post. Hell I didn’t know you were trying to give them to me! ��
Thanks for the advice. I look forward to messing with them. It was good meeting you guys. Hope to see you again.

Murf

[NeighborsComplaint]

Just my $.02, but I would do the SBF Spider and Dogbones over the plates in a minute.

If the plates were made of spring steel, stamped and folded to form "fingers" at each lifter bore that self-adjust as the plate is tightened down, then I'd say the plate could be a workable product.

[P@blo]

Originally Posted by NeighborsComplaint

Just my $.02, but I would do the SBF Spider and Dogbones over the plates in a minute.

If the plates were made of spring steel, stamped and folded to form "fingers" at each lifter bore that self-adjust as the plate is tightened down, then I'd say the plate could be a workable product.

Plus, the dogbones for thr SBF will engage both flats on the lifter and the plate has only half the contact area. I am probably just saying the same thing you are NC.

Looking at the videos of the roller lifter tracking the cam lob one can see the lifter wants to stay straight and the dogbones look up to this task.

[Jay S]

I personally did this just to try Rhoads roller lifters in a Pontiac. I do not have issues with running link bar retro set ups, and do not think any of the anti rotational systems hold much advantage over one another. The cartridge and dog bone style holders are cheap and easy on new stuff, but they get limited on smaller base circles on high lift cams. Retro fit link bars hold the lifters from one side like the guide plate system, and they really only hold the lifter straight while on the base circle. I have not had issues with guide/link bars versus the more modern cartridge and dog bone holding systems. The link bars that usually fail are the ones that are riveted instead of bolted. Unfortunately that type of fastener is kind of common.

When I tested the Ford dog bones they were pretty loose, not to say the dog bones is a bad design, just not quite designed for a Pontiac, as I recall the Pontiac lifters are spaced a little further apart than the Ford. It allows the lifter to rotate and walk more than what I am use to seeing. Rather than trying to make it work I decided I would prefer to wait for the plate. To make it work on any kind of scale the dog bones need to set flat on something though, which could get pretty elaborate, probably something from above that hold the dog bone up instead of down. As is each dog bone needs to be machined to fit each lifter boss, and it is very difficult to get them to set square with the lifter.

Time will tell how well the plate wears, probably should check it after some miles and reset to clearances, my plan anyway. The one I have is a Rhoads vpro like Murfs. JMHO, looking at the plate it is colored like a semi hardened steel.

Ford dog bone bracketing is pretty easy to modify to fit a Pontiac, getting the dog bones to set nicely on the blocks lifter bore bosses is the challenge. The good new is the miss alignment probably serves to tighten some of the slack. I am hopeful that the plate system works well.

[P@blo]

Originally Posted by Jay S

The cartridge and dog bone style holders are cheap and easy on new stuff, but they get limited on smaller base circles on high lift cams. Retro fit link bars hold the lifters from one side like the guide plate system, and they really only hold the lifter straight while on the base circle. I have not had issues with guide/link bars versus the more modern cartridge and dog bone holding systems. The link bars that usually fail are the ones that are riveted instead of bolted. Unfortunately that type of fastener is kind of common.

Would a guy run a smaller base-circle higher lift cam with a 1.5:1 ratio rocker arm? Might be a stupid question but the dogbone set-up calls for a 1.65:1 ratio rocker with the XR288 cam which would increase the lift and the duration at the valves and with ported d-port heads might be not worth the squeeze for lift that will not be needed type of deal.

Maybe aluminum heads might not be ideal in this situation but in other set-ups would be a good solution. Also, we cannot forget the weight savings on the HT-2148 lifters and the reduced cost to the builder going the non-link bar route.

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by P@blo

Would a guy run a smaller base-circle higher lift cam with a 1.5:1 ratio rocker arm? Might be a stupid question but the dogbone set-up calls for a 1.65:1 ratio rocker with the XR288 cam which would increase the lift and the duration at the valves and with ported d-port heads might be not worth the squeeze for lift that will not be needed type of deal.

Maybe aluminum heads might not be ideal in this situation but in other set-ups would be a good solution. Also, we cannot forget the weight savings on the HT-2148 lifters and the reduced cost to the builder going the non-link bar route.

I generally agree there is no reason to run a bigger rocker ratio if the heads do not flow more than what 1.5 rockers already provide. These 2148 lifters will generally work best with bigger rocker ratios if the combo wants more lift, then use cam profiles with .31-.35” lobe lift. With less lift they will likely also work better with a small block lobe instead of a Pontiac lobe or Comps “B” lobe. I would want to ask what the base circle was to make sure it is large enough. But backing off on the lift some with a little smaller cam core should place the oil hole/groove centered vertically in the lifter galley better than some of the bigger cores. On some era blocks with larger cam 1.88-1.89” cores the top oil hole will get exposed. Not sure what Comps cam core diameter is for the Pontiac “B” big block grind is though. Butlers custom HR cams are usually B grinds. Not sure if a off the self XR288 is a B or a small block lobe, I think it may be the smaller small block lobe. If the 288 happened to be ground with a small block lobe it might have to small of a base circle on the exhaust, it is .36” lobe lift.

The small block lobes with less lift (.31-.34”) centers the 2148 lifter best. Most small block cores are 1.83”-1.86”. The lobes small block or big block with more than .35” lobe lift need to be checked to make sure they are keeping to oil in the lifter galley and not leaking excessively, on the top and the bottom.

[1980 TA]

Time for an update. I've got about 4 hours of grinding fitting the ford dog bones. My goal is to get them flat on top of the lifter bore. There is no slack on the lifters themselves, but getting them dead centered between the lifters is proving to be difficult as there is a cast in rib between the lifter bores. Mine is not quite centered between the lifter bores so I have to grind a little off centered.

There is also some rounding to the casting in the block on the back side of the lifter bore. The block wall tapers nicely into the lifter bore but makes grinding difficult.

I'm real close to getting them fit the way that I like.

Now for the idea that I hope generates some good discussion and I'll be sure to post pics tonight or tomorrow.

Instead of the spider to hold the dog bones in place, I have been fitting the plate. It sits across all of the dog bones and holds them snug to the top of the lifter bores. The dog bones can shift fore or aft as needed to clear the stiffening rib but can't rotate or lift. The hardware for the plate centers the plate nicely and it seems to provide even pressure across all of the dog bones. Can anyone see a reason why this would hold the dog bones in place as good or better than the spider?

[1980 TA]

Here's a pic of the dog bones sitting loosely in place:

[1980 TA]

Here's a couple of pics of the right bank with the plate in place. The pics start from the rear and work forward. You can see that the dog bones are not perfectly centered between the lifters as the plate presses down on them but there is plenty of contact on each lifter from the dog bones.

[slowbird]

Im confused, i thought that plate took the place of the dogbones, didn't think they were needed??

[Jim Moshier]

Originally Posted by slowbird

Im confused, i thought that plate took the place of the dogbones, didn't think they were needed??

You are correct, the original configuration is without the dog bones, Curious as to why they are being used as well!

[grivera]

Have you already checked clearance with valley pan?

[77ta4spd]

Nice job combining both methods.

[grivera]

Originally Posted by Murf

Hi Jay! I used the V- Pro. I misspoke in my last post. Hell I didn’t know you were trying to give them to me! ��
Thanks for the advice. I look forward to messing with them. It was good meeting you guys. Hope to see you again.

Murf

Hey Murf - how’s it running?

[1980 TA]

If you'll go back a couple of posts, you'll find that the plate did not work quite as planned for me. With the plate as low as it would go several lifters would drag and a couple would not make contact with the plate when they were at the bottom of their travel and there was nothing to keep them from spinning. If I loosened the plate, a couple of more lifters would not make contact with the plate and could spin.

The dog bone and spider was suggested so that I did not have to change lifters and push rods and switch to a linked roller lifter.

Working on the dog bones, I got to looking at the plate and thought it might be a better way of securing the dog bones than the modified ford spider.

[Murf]

Will, so far so good. Don’t have many miles yet , tho.

1980TA, is there any chance of the dog ones trying to cock sideways as they are being held on one edge instead of the center? Just wondering. Please keep us up to date.

Murf

[1980 TA]

Murf,

Good question. I don't think so as they just barely clear the block on the side next to the block. Not much room to wiggle. I did check it by placing a crescent wrench in the middle of several of the bones without the plate in place and tried to twist them and if I applied any downward pressure with my other hand seating them to the top of the lifter bores, there was no way to twist them.

In my mind the angle of the valley forces the plate to seat them fully onto the top of the lifter bores.

Keep the questions coming as I really don't want to get this wrong. Could afford to rebuild the motor once but don't really want to do it again.

I should have time to cut the spider apart tomorrow and see how it fits.

[1980 TA]

I cut the spider apart and test fit it and I did not like it at all. The tabs of the spider don't fit centered between the lifters. They are a little short of center. The other thing was that the tabs of the spider did not touch the dog bones even with the spider fully seated in the valley. The arms of the spider I'm sure can be bent downward but that didn't seem like the best of ideas to me.

As for holding the dog bones in place, the plate seems to work far better. I have two points of contact on each dog bone and each one was hand fit to the block.

I lubed them all up and adjusted the plate to where it just touched the dog bones. That part was real easy to tell as it would have a little rock side to side that quit at first contact.

I have spun the motor with a ratchet numerous times and all of the dog bones have stayed perfectly centered between the lifters with the plate in place (I went back and fit them all so that they were centered to the naked eye).

I have torqued and un torqued the plate twice now to make sure that no lifters hung up during cycling.

Everything clears the aluminum valley pan from Butler.

Any reason this won't hold the bones in place as well or better than the spider?

I'll post pics tomorrow of the bones in there final ground state.

[78w72]

im a little late to all of this, so the plate system from randy isnt working too well for you guys that are trying it? the video he posted looked like it was a tried & tested set up & seemed to work pretty good... is he MIA now??

also what is the mention of the rhodes lifters being used, i thought this plate system was specifically for the sealed power type roller lifters. just curious & sorry if i missed some details in the 7 pages of this thread.