[Scott Roberts]

Originally Posted by J.C.you

An unrelated question, besides talking in circles, and a legit one.... how come your flopper ran 1/2 second slower in your possession than it does now with a less aero body?

I had a specific point about a 406 tunnel port motor that was projected to make 2.7-3.0hp per inch. You took it all personal like and got butthurt over it. Never said your chit would blow up but thats how you took it so ok..maybe your valve train is a sensative subject to you.. im guessing you wake up in a sweat screaming over that nightmare.. anyways..to answer your question, money is the answer to your question.. we were not willing to spend the extra 30k + to go to the next level.new owner did. See how easy it was to answer a question with a straight answer..no circles here.
We can just agree to disagree and wait for the McCarty 406 to be built and see how it fairs.

[Scott Roberts]

two last points.. you have an impressive combo that nobody denies! i wish you the best with it. Also, the main issue on the tunnel port testing was not the valve train.. pro stock program was scrapped due to other issues with the head design and high rpm delivery. Carry on...:-)

[J.C.you]

Originally Posted by Scott Roberts

the main issue on the tunnel port testing was not the valve train.. pro stock program was scrapped due to other issues with the head design and high rpm delivery. Carry on...:-)

Scott, what head what that now? a Pontiac, Ford, Chevy, Mopar? Still waiting on your inside privy on those tests.... carry on...

[dci]

Scott, I could not find any info on anyone other than Steinbreck using a tunnel port head for Prostock. I did find some info on a 351 Ford with what they called a split port tunnel port design head. Kind of like what I have done with my heads. The guy claims it made 1023 HP. I could not find much more about it, except he claims it was outlawed because it gave the Ford boys an unfair advantage in Nascar. The heads were actually a Ford part in their motorsports catalog as recently as 1996. I know Tom V made mention of them, but other than that I could not find anything else about them. Does anyone know who the guy was that worked on this program for Junior Johnson? If so, I would love to get the guys number or email.


Don Johnston
DCI MOTORSPORTS INC.
330-850-5050 shop
330-628-3354 cell
Designer of the DCI Tiger Heads and the NEW DCI Ram Air 5 Heads !!!!!

[dci]

I forgot to mention. If it is indeed true, which I am not saying it is. That engine made 2.91 HP per cube!!!!!


Don Johnston
DCI MOTORSPORTS INC.
330-850-5050 shop
330-628-3354 cell
Designer of the DCI Tiger Heads and the NEW DCI Ram Air 5 Heads !!!!!

[J.C.you]

Don, it would be nice to have one of those heads to see what the mindset was at the time.

[dci]

JC, It looks like to me that they made two ports that share one intake valve. That was exactly what I had in mind when I did my port design, but I did not connect the center or the ports together. After I did some flow testing. Having a solid wall did not make the port flow any better. So my thought was that without it we could gain back some port volume without hurting torque. I think that if my port design works out that the problem with pushrod geometry will be almost non existent.


Don Johnston
DCI MOTORSPORTS INC.
330-850-5050 shop
330-628-3354 cell
Designer of the DCI Tiger Heads and the NEW DCI Ram Air 5 Heads !!!!!

[Stan Weiss]

Don,
My memory is not what it used to be. But I believe that NHRA 500 ci Pro Stock engines at that time ('96) were well under 1300 HP which is 2.6 Hp per ci.

Stan

[smokey 1978]

We should all get along with one another and focus on bashing on chevy,mopar and ford and help each other out instead of comparing engine combos.We are all brothers here and we need to focus on making Pontiac even greater!!!! Great job on that bad ass combo J.C. and i can assure you all that J.C. can build any engine combination at any rpm desired what it all comes down to is $$$$$$ Im not choosing sides here i have respect for everyone on the py

[dci]

Your probably right Stan. I don't think that the head I'm referring to was used in Prostock, but Nascar.


Don Johnston
DCI MOTORSPORTS INC.
330-850-5050 shop
330-628-3354 cell
Designer of the DCI Tiger Heads and the NEW DCI Ram Air 5 Heads !!!!!

[Pont428]

Originally Posted by J.C.you

CSA determines peak among with other factors including stroke, which I am sure you are aware of. The motor we are still working on is a class motor, built for a specific purpose, hopefully to have an advantage with current rules in that class. I don't think it is a fair assumption that because this engine currently peaks at 8100 or so means a shorter stroke build would do likewise.

I see no reason one could not take a 3.5 stroke or so with a 4.5 bore, a short valve v head such as Lynn's with the pushrod out of the port, move the cam lobes and lifter bores to straighten the angles and make power to 10k.
Would it make comparable power as a symmetrical port head? No, but to blankly say a tunnel port cannot make power past 9200 is not a good thing to publicly post. You may have to eat a cyber post.

He definitely will eat that one JC. They will do push rod in first to see what power it makes. Air is Air, it doesnt know what RPM the engine is. Why dont we just wait and see? I remember when everyone said a 4.5 bore wasnt possible, and here you are JC! Lynn is doing close to 4.6 bore for me.

[Pont428]

Originally Posted by J.C.you

A straight port, nothing more, nothing less. That was the advantage of the tunnel port head over other designs of that timeframe. Evidently no one had tried moving the pushrod out of the port and/or probably did not have the supporting hardware to move it.

Ditto!

Plus maybe the size of the port. My port is well over 500 CFM and 5.5 square inches. It will be interesting to see. I like how these guys like PastryChef aka Bruce Fulper knows everything before it is done. They are setting goals let us see what happens?

[Transporter]

Originally Posted by Pont428

He definitely will eat that one JC. They will do push rod in first to see what power it makes. Air is Air, it doesnt know what RPM the engine is. Why dont we just wait and see? I remember when everyone said a 4.5 bore wasnt possible, and here you are JC! Lynn is doing close to 4.6 bore for me.

Pont428, can I assume that to get close to 4.6 you are stagger bored? and also what do you think your thinnest wall section will be?

Just curious,

Thanks Stan

[Scott Roberts]

Originally Posted by Pont428

He definitely will eat that one JC. They will do push rod in first to see what power it makes. Air is Air, it doesnt know what RPM the engine is. Why dont we just wait and see? I remember when everyone said a 4.5 bore wasnt possible, and here you are JC! Lynn is doing close to 4.6 bore for me.

1) You guys are hell bent on me eatting something...weird..

2) I hope it doesnt have this kind of angularity on the push rods.. see pic below

3) Whole lot more to it then that...

4) I said that in my last post but everyone is still acting butt hurt and insisting I will be eating something still. See bold statement #1.

5) I wish both you and J.C. the best on your combos. I hope they perform as expected.

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by Scott Roberts

1) You guys are hell bent on me eatting something...weird..

2) I hope it doesnt have this kind of angularity on the push rods.. see pic below

3) Whole lot more to it then that...

4) I said that in my last post but everyone is still acting butt hurt and insisting I will be eating something still. See bold statement #1.

5) I wish both you and J.C. the best on your combos. I hope they perform as expected.

Scott,
That only shows why in one of these thread I ask about how much the lifter bores could be moved and J.C. answered. But do not remember how much they were moved.

Stan

[dci]

Pont428, What are the spec's on your build if you don't mind me asking? I don't know if we have ever met before. Were are you located?



Don Johnston
DCI MOTORSPORTS INC.
330-850-5050 shop
330-628-3354 cell
Designer of the DCI Tiger Heads and the NEW DCI Ram Air 5 Heads !!!!!

[Pont428]

JC`s engine wouldnt rev at all! It revs more than the traditional Pontiacs with less CID, so why is that?

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Scott,
That only shows why in one of these thread I ask about how much the lifter bores could be moved and J.C. answered. But do not remember how much they were moved.

Stan

I'm guesstimating that intake pushrod is off center approx 1.25" .... To straighten that out means move the intake lifter bore centers the same amount... offsetting the lifter cup plays havoc on the roller and Crower told me beyond .150" is not a good idea...they dont like any offset whenever possible. The exhaust is also offset in that pic just not highlighted it isnt as severe. So your definately talking major block changes and a new cam core to run the big port at very high rpm reliably.

[T Syron]

Originally Posted by smokey 1978

We should all get along with one another and focus on bashing on chevy,mopar and ford and help each other out instead of comparing engine combos.We are all brothers here and we need to focus on making Pontiac even greater!!!! Great job on that bad ass combo J.C. and i can assure you all that J.C. can build any engine combination at any rpm desired what it all comes down to is $$$$$$ Im not choosing sides here i have respect for everyone on the py

Amen Brother!

Good post.

Tom Syron

[Pont428]

Biggest Engine I can make, McCarty heads over 500 CFM, twin dominator. JC`s record breaking engine sold me. I just think spending all that money on moving the push rod out isnt for me. I would rather have the additional flow and greater port area. I love JC`s engine it is great for his class. Lynn has 3 or 4 engine designs since doing that one.

We are just waiting to find a tall deck block.