[Goatman]

Engo, Joe Allan is correct. He stated at the flywheel HP and that is what it would take.

Tiki, not mellowed, just tired of all the BS. I have a car that weighs the same, with E-heads, 14:1, a comprable roller, a Wilson Manifolds ported Victor and I'm just .10 faster with 1 less MPH? I'm sure every clown will use this as an excuse to try to tell me that I can't tune, but that's a joke. Only thing I need sorted out is my chassis, and even then, I'm not sure my motor will be making 700HP. The last time I ran, the corrected altitude was 1000'. Perhaps I could squeak out 1 more MPH, but I have the hardware for it.

Either those "D-ports" have been so extensively modified that they aren't D-ports anymore (same with the intake) or the nitrous system was activated and he's full of it.


Look at it this way:

Very few people are making a true 700+ HP with D-ports. I will use two people as an example. Jim Zeek and Joe Zajack. I appologize if I got the names mis-spelled.

Now, I have heard both of those cars run. Neither one could be considered anywhere near "street" motors. Too much compression, too much cam.

On top of that, Joe uses a dual quad bathtub intake that has been extensively modified and I am 100% sure that Jim's intake is a little more "severe" than an RPM.

On top of that, I would bet real money that both sets of "D-port" heads that are on the motors I was previously speaking about are so modified, that they are no longer D-ports, except on the outside.

This guy is from Maryland. That's on the same coast as me, last time I checked. There are a few tracks that are close to sea level, so I'm sure that at this time of year, everyone is running their best, just as I am. But still....

Think about it guys, something is wrong here.

I'm like heaven, everybody wanna get to me.........

[Rob B]

Something doesn't smell right either! I'm running 10.90's@121mph/6.90's@ 98mph weighing about 3400lbs with a simple combo (455) I think is pushed to its limits! His combo sound more like a high 11 but more like a low 12 sec motor outside of the size of his camshaft which I would think would hurt the performance even more.

[Engo]

Goatman. I think you are wrong too. It simply does not take 700 hp at the flywheel to run 130mph at 3400. From where did you get that claim?

I know that my engine sure does not make 700 hp at the flywheel. Still, at my cars total weight of 3800lbs, it propelles it to 124 mph in the 1/4 mile. It uses ported d-port heads that have a max flow of 265cfm, a victor intake, 850 Holley, 1 3/4" headers, 3" mufflers and tailpipes, 264/272 solid cam and a 400 auto with 3200 stall. I figure my engine produces around 560-570hp in the car.

I don´t see anything strange at all with badbirds claim of 130 mph at 3400 lbs.

Street ´69 Firebird. 3800 lbs with driver. 455 with D-ports. 275x50 drag radials. Stock suspension. 11.24s@124.2mph (motor only)10.42s@130.3mph (+150hpNOS)

[SupergasDil]

Badbird68,
I'm a big D port fan but I'd have to see your car run to believe that you are telling the truth. You asked if anyone thinks there would be a better intake for you? If your car runs like you say it does, then you know there are better intakes for drag racing. I have run that intake on several different engine combinations in a full tube chassis car and pulled a max mph of 118. And 126 with a 150 shot. That intake is just too restrictive on the top end. Your bluff has been called.

[LouisianaGuy]

So J.C. your following the turbo saga as well huh?/ hehe, just got my torker II cleaned and blasted and ready to go on, need to put manifolds on and run the pipe, and get a carb on it, and break down and buy a wastegate
Then its ON like a chicken bone.
Mike

[73LeMans]

I know its not the "For Sale" section, but see this as a great oppurtunity for someone to buy my RPM intake. Anyone?

Who needs nice and pretty, when you can have mean and nasty? 73 LeMans: 12.5 in the 1/4 on its way to 10.90's!

[Goatman]

Well, Engo, I guess its just you against the world then.......


Everyone else who has posted here agrees with me.

I'm like heaven, everybody wanna get to me.........

[Larry Navarro]

what happened to the pontiac "brotherhood" here?
some folks just flat-out have their cars tuned...pure and simple!
would the same doubt be upheld if badbird were running a victor intake or aftermarket heads!!!....Hell at least he's running a roller cam!!!
He's got nothing to hide, why would he make-up his accomplishments when anyone can witness the performance on the track.
Guys like "torqjunki", "grnmstr", "fast-eddy", mike cooke, craig berkhiemer and a host of others have all had success DEEP into the 10's with "less appealing" hardware.
Never once have I seen any of these guys degrade the merits of performance from those running more exotic hardware with comparable results.
As someone stated before.... "we don't race dynos", the same can be applied to "doing the math".
The "math" here is done a 1/4 mile at a time!!!!
Geez....its no wonder jim hand doesn't post here anymore.

1973 SD455 T/A
1979 S.E. T/A
http://community.webshots.com/album/16587603rOyvmFCiHs

[69GPModJ]

Here are a couple of forumlas and the resulting HPs:

weight / (ET / 5.825)^3 = HP

3420 / (10.41 / 5.825)^3 = 599.19

AND

weight * (speed / 234)^3 = HP

3420 * (130.53 / 234)^3 = 593.62

I'm not a mathematician but both those forumulas are pretty standard and it seems you can do what the original fellow said he could do. 600 hp is pretty skookum but it's not 700.

69GPModJ

Moderation in everything--including moderation. WC Fields.

[Goathead]

What is the fastest car anyone knows of with a rpm intake manifold? I went a 10.41 @ 130.53 wed. nite at cecil county. I cant believe it pulled that much mph. Does anyone think a different intake will pick the car up? Its a 468,#16's,rpm intake,1 inch spacer,830 carb (pro systems rebuilt),turbo 350,3.55 gears,4400 10 inch converter. Car weighs 3420 with me.

Where is the no NOS part?



http://www.dannys65gto.com

http://kurtspontiac.homestead.com/dannys65gto.html

[Goatman]

In his sig.........

I'm like heaven, everybody wanna get to me.........

[Goatman]

Both calculations above are for REAR WHEEL HORSEPOWER. You would need 688 HP at the flywheel to run that fast.

I swear you people are enough to drive someone insane.

I'm like heaven, everybody wanna get to me.........

[Goatman]

Since everyone likes having thier hands held so much:

http://www.speedworldmotorplex.com/calc.htm

http://www.psienhancements.com/company.asp

http://javascript.internet.com/calculators/horsepower.html

I'm like heaven, everybody wanna get to me.........

[dammen8]

Here is where I stand on this, Now we all know that I DO have my engines dyno'd and I do run my car at the track and I have had my car scaled. Now you are saying that his car at 3400# has to be making 700hp to run 130mph I say that is complete ignorance. My engine IS making and I have posted my dyno sheet on here...709hp. My car IS heavier 3480# I run a 3.89 gear rather than his 3.55. The last time I was at the track the air density was at 2400 feet the temp was 85 degrees and the track was good, Now my car weighing more and making 709hp at the crank ran 137+ mph so over 7mph faster, but how could this be I mean since you guys are saying that he is making just as much power as me and his car is lighter than mine? I would love to hear a answer to this... Another thing to look at here is Lance Line at Line performance ..this is where I dyno at and Lance is the person that does the dynoing, he is also a "stocker" his car weighs over 3600# his engine IS making 550hp (I do not remember the exact numbers) but he has shown me his dyno sheet. His car weighing more than bad birds by 200# and only making 500+hp is running 10 flat at 131mph so maybe some body should say that he is running the bottle, but you know he is not and look at the power to weight ratio. So what I am saying that in my opinion it is very possible to run 130+mph @3400# He is only running a 3.55 gear and it probably is pulling going though the traps. Can I ask you as to why would he lie about this anyway its not like he is going to win a award or anything. Oh yea one more quick example My brothers car 3300# 627hp on the dyno at the crank runs 134.33mph with the air at 2400 feet so do not say that you need 700hp to run 130mph that is complete BS. And bruce your car would probably be alot quicker if you got the chassis issues figured out but the launch does look cool . Later

Chad Dammen

ND's fastest Pontiac (I think) and Minot's fastest street car (not like that means much)

[This message was edited by dammen8 on October 13, 2003 at 03:13 PM.]

[dammen8]

Hhahaha hey bruce the first calculator that you put up said that I am making 709 rwhp lol. and it said 815 something or another at the crank boy that is one accurate calculator heheh

Chad

ND's fastest Pontiac (I think) and Minot's fastest street car (not like that means much)

[Goatman]

I don't know what to tell you Chad. It works fine on my dyno'ed 474 I had.

Seems accurate enough to me, but, as we all know, dyno numbers can be skewed any way an operator wants.

Seems to me, your buddies' dyno is a bit stingy. Happens all the time.

I hope you like my explanation. I couldn't have made it more simple.

I'm like heaven, everybody wanna get to me.........

[Goatman]

Another good example:

My GTO made 490HP at the rear wheels two days before Norwalk. Whithout touching the tuneup, I made my first pass which was a 10.66. Car weighs 3400lbs. Must be another "dyno mystery", huh?

LOL

I'm like heaven, everybody wanna get to me.........

[dammen8]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Goatman:
I don't know what to tell you Chad. It works fine on my dyno'ed 474 I had.

Seems accurate enough to me, but, as we all know, dyno numbers can be skewed any way an operator wants.

Seems to me, your buddies' dyno is a bit stingy. Happens all the time.

.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So I see his dyno is stingy only 100hp I find that hard to believe. I could see maybe 10 or so but not 100. BTW here is my chassis dyno that was done by a different shop and I suppose that there dyno is off by 150hp also since your calculators must be right .



I guess that where I get my dynoing done I should have them both recalibrate their equipment, Oh I forgot to mention the engine dyno was just calibrated 1 week before I pulled on it. I am not arguing here I am just stating my facts that I know are true, I simply think that he had good air for the pass and with that type of a gear his is going to still be pulling at the end. Bruce I believe you when you say that you have 700hp because I would say that you have no reason to lie about it but my brothers car with less than 630hp and only 530ftlbs ran 10.16 @3300#. What I am saying is that there is so much et and even mph in a chassis it is unbelievable, Explain this to me and like I said before I have seen his dyno sheets, How can a car weighing over 200# more than mine with over 150 less horsepower be running just about as quick as my car....it is simple it is all in the chassis set up...now if I could just figure out what they are doing to their chassis I could be a whole lot faster .

Chad Dammen

ND's fastest Pontiac (I think) and Minot's fastest street car (not like that means much)

[Goatman]

Chad, 70HP is only 10% if you're motor is making 700HP. Get it?

My motor made 640 HP and it was the first to go on the dyno after it was calibrated. It went 10.62 @ 128 and my car wieghed about 3500lbs. My 60's at the time were identical to his. Yes, the chassis set up is key, and he has less frontal area than I do, but, if the chassis set up isn't in the 60', then where is it?

My current 60' is a 1.42 which is way better than his, and I'm still one MPH off him, but .10 quicker. Basically the same wieght. Basically the same stall, but I have an 8" converter. So, yes, his is tighter.

You telling me that his chassis is set up to be more efficient? No way brother.

I'm like heaven, everybody wanna get to me.........

[JOE ALLAN]

First off Dyno are like Math, both can be wrong, but as long as you use the same Dyno or Math formulas across the board you'll see the differences in power increases and decreases. Nascar had a motor Dyno'd some years back in to parts of the USA..Out in California and back in South Carolina both Dyno were state of art at that time, both were well respected! Heres the odd results, the South Carolina dyno show'd 50 HP more then the California Dyno and also peek HP RPM was up 400 rpm.......and what was really weird was the HP & Torque on both Dyno's crossed at 5252 rpm just like they were supose too! My Point: you have to use the same dyno or Math figures to figure things out! you can't mix & match......Also you have to correct MPH to sea-level to figure Hp to Weight.....Take Mr.Kenny Laoge's math figures - he came up with 593.62 HP to go 130.52 mph at 3420 lbs..I don't know what the corrected elevation was on this run, but if it was at least 1200' then you can use NHRA'S correction factor of 1.0129 to correct his MPH to 132.20 the redue the formula, then add 25 HP for the use of the TURBO-400 and 20 HP more for the converter slippage and now your back to the 685 to 700 HP figures! Your computer calcalaters usually calcalate HP to sea-level with out consideration for what trans and converter are used!....I had my Power to Weight figures and Correction figures since the late 60's and my figures match MOPARS pretty close and my corrected HP figures match two of Southern California's best Dyno's......No one has to belive me,I could care less about showing you my system......My point was this guy said he ran 130.52 mph in a 3420 lbs car with a Edelbrock RPM Intake "WITH OUT NITROUS"..If you don't believe me reread the start of this stuff.....I say he didn't do it that way, i say he used the 150 shot of spray!!!!!! Take your HP figures of 550 HP or sooo and add the 150 shot of spray and you got 700 HORSE POWER!!!!!!!!Relize that Hp is almost always corrected to "SEA-LEVEL" and factors mostly don't consider slippage and things so you have to realize Math is just going to put you in the Ball-Park!!!! If you don't want to believe me thats your right.......NOW HERE ARE SOME POWER TO WEIGHT FIGURES AT SEA-LEVEL THAT I BELIEVE IN: To go 100 MPH in the 1/4 mile takes 11.9827 lbs per HP----110 mph takes 8.8199----120 takes 6.7936 and 130 takes 6.3433........Have fun and enjoy!...JOE ALLAN ps ..For all of you who think i'm wrong, well-----"MORE POWER TO YOU"-----because your going to need it!! to run that big MPH with out the spray......We WON the PONTIAC SOUTHERN NATIONALS in 2001 and took second in 1999 with a MILD D-PORT 455 in a 3000 lbs car running 122 mph at 10.83 et - Now with an E-Head 463" we run 131 MPH at 10.125 et at 3100' at still 3000 lbs....1.38 - 60'.....4.007-330'....107.32 mph at 6.34 et in the 1/8 with small 259-269 roller and an 850 Holley on a victor intake.......BARNEY did our machine work and William Sneed put the engine together.....We run at Wall Dragway and Abilene, come talk to us, we are easy to find because we run a WHITE 1936 PACKARD in Electronics......Take care and have FUN because thats what it is supose be.. "FUN"......OH! and if you don't like what i have said come talk to me....This is all my opinion...Not MR. SNEEDS.......I'll be the OLD FAT-MAN sitting at the trailer doing the weather.....See you at the Races........JOE