[J Brady]

George, I didn't say that Jack,Scott, and My old buddy John Welter are not good bracket racers. They are some of the best. I am just saying that for the money and time involved the Chevy deal is a better deal. You can order steel cranks, Heads that flow 400 plus, any cam combination and have the stuff in a week for 1/2 the price of the good stuff for a Pontiac. It is that simple! Hey I really respect the things all of you guys do. You work your Butts off because you love the Pontiac motor. I really am the same way, but I am a realist and the fact is you can run a big inch chevy for less money and make more power than you can a Pontiac. Hey I will still be thrasing on the 61 Cat trying to get it in the 10's and will love it.

[Rob]

Jim Butler brought the "Big Dog" race to Norwalk two years ago and four seven second door cars were over there this year.

What I know of Jeff's deal is the old 7.40s car got a little hurt in a wheelstand and the new car is "a very smooth ride" but it doesnt have 9 years of tuning. Also KRE was pushing their new solid billet head on all three cars, and the little digger motor was last in line for attention.

Honestly with Jeff becomning "Daddy" at the same time I didn't think he was going to get to run in his own race at all!



-Rob

[cls]

Jimmy :

My email is cls@perigee.net...

[GTOGEORGE]

Jim,

A Chevy is cheaper to buid than a Pontiac , I'll give you that. With everything being equal a Pontiac will kick a Chevy's butt in. How you couldn't run 8.90's in a Dragster throttle stopping it without breaking parts is beyond me. Talk to KRE they can build you an engine. Thanks

Headed for the seven's!

[Goatman]

Do you even realize how incoherent your statements are?

PY's first and ONLY real, live celebrity. If you don't know, you better ask somebody!

[Tom Vaught]

The original Salvo by George:

"Yea, I was just saying to my Ford buddy the other day how fast Fords are. They can't make it in Pro Stock......nor Pro Mod! They were fast in the late 60's early 70's. Lets not beat a dead horse, this is a PONTIAC web site."

Response:

Don't know how old you are George but in 1964 I bought my 64 GTO and Arnie put a supercharger on his 64 GTO. His car was a 6-71 blown package with skinny tires, no suspension, and a steel body. He
went low 8s and high 7s. I was impressed!

Fast Forward, FORTY YEARS, to today. Now we have
George running a lighter car, a bigger engine, a
larger blower, a better suspension, and better
tires with a Pontiac engine and he wants me to be impressed with his low 8 second times. Yes, "They
were fast in the late 60s early 70s" but you are
not fast in 2004 by any stretch of the imagination

You come out with this "poor boy" bull***** and
about family committments. Arnie was a "poor boy"
too and had family committments too and went as fast as you are now but FOURTY YEARS years earlier.

Quote by Bruce:

"Fords are the fastest cars on the planet. Bar none in drag racing right now."

Maybe a little stretch there.

Quote:

"Anyone here going 7's with a 360ci Pontiac? In a 10" tired, 3000lb street legal car? NOPE."

True statement.

Quote:

"No one here is doing that without a 2600lb Pro Stock car and a HUGE motor."

True

Quote:

"Pontiacs are a joke in the drag racing world. A few people are trying to change that, but if you go to an event that has other brands vs Pontiacs, Pontiac almost never come out on top."

Maybe not to the Pontiac guys but most other car
racers do not pay much attention to them except in a "class racer".

Quote by Ken Keefer:

"Actually you have to run into the 7's now-a-days to compete with Chevies and Fords...... Heads up.

The brothers beater looking 4 door cars run low 8's and high 7's just for Funday Sundays down here.

Chevies in the 8's, that was in the 90's, 4 years ago.

Ask Ray what it will take to stay competitive this year in one of the few Cheaper, Lower classes of heads up racing.
He better have his game on in the real lowwwwwwwwwww 8's.

If Pontiac doesn't watch out, the ricer 4 cylinder heads up movement will past Pontiac up. LOL.

A few of them down here are in the low 9's and high 8's.

Now that's embarrassing."

True Statements by Ken


Quote:

"Tom,
3000lbs................so 2800 or 2500 is not heavy enough? Making your own rules up again I see. Why in the heck would someone want to race something that heavy unless they had too? More weight, more parts breakage...........that's really smart? And who care if you have a buddy with the blown flathead streamliner that went 315 last fall at Bonneville anyways. We all have buddy's."

Response

The Super Street class requires a 3000 lb weight.
That is all I said. I am not making up any rules,
I am making a comparison between a FAST car and
your car. As far as caring if the team I worked with at Bonneville ran 315, I again was making a comparison between a "World Champion Record Holder
team number and you who will never be a World Champion at anything as you already said you don't
want to go fast. You just want to be a big fish in a little pond and brag about running numbers a guy ran FORTY YEARS ago.

Quote:

"Tom,
The FAST Chevy Pro Mod guys are running in the 6 teens with one power adder."

And who cares if you have a buddy with a Chevy Pro
Mod running 6s with one power adder, George?

We all have buddy's and you never were a pro mod racer or DRIVER so shut the Fu*k up unless you have done it. So what gives you the right to be an expert on Pro mods. Hurts doesn't it George when it is coming back at you, you weren't the Driver so you don't know ***** about it.

Tom V.

How is that for trash talking Ray?

[Ray Cox]

Well atleast we got some real smack talk going again

Bruce I diagree I think a lot of pontiacs could be competitive
if they are in the classes then you are comparing more apples to apples
a lot already are and I hope to be one of them soon

I think Langer has a shot at it
M Davis already has
Bruce M already has
another guy in Pro I dont recal his name
Butler possibly could be in pro street aginst musi if they campained the car and worked at it but Ive heard due to a back injury or somthing rodney cant make that commitment

If the cars have to meet class rules the fords are not that far ahead they are just cheaper and the tecnology is easyer to get. I guess we will see if I can back it all up this year with some low 8s

T-Shirts For Sale "Dude Free In 2003"
OLD COMBO 8.90 @157 mph 3424 LBS. 77 Trans Am All Steel, on 10" tires
New COMBO 8.79 @ 161 mph 1.42 60 ft 3,455lbs

[twooldgoats]

Tom V, According to the May, 1965 issue of Hot Rod Magazine, which ran a four page feature on Arnie's Mystery Tornado blown '64 GTO, it had run a low time of 10.23 to date. He may have gone faster later, but that's a far cry from seven's and eight's. Did he really improve his ET's by more than two seconds? Seems hard to believe.

Just to add a little fuel to the fire.

[Ray Cox]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by twooldgoats:
Tom V, According to the May, 1965 issue of Hot Rod Magazine, which ran a four page feature on Arnie's Mystery Tornado blown '64 GTO, it had run a low time of 10.23 to date. He may have gone faster later, but that's a far cry from seven's and eight's. Did he really improve his ET's by more than two seconds? Seems hard to believe.

Just to add a little fuel to the fire. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Now were getting theis post going

T-Shirts For Sale "Dude Free In 2003"
OLD COMBO 8.90 @157 mph 3424 LBS. 77 Trans Am All Steel, on 10" tires
New COMBO 8.79 @ 161 mph 1.42 60 ft 3,455lbs

[tempest455]

The Tornado went low 8's on Nitromethane.

Tempest455
http://www.wauknet.com/douthitt/

[Brian Baker]

I don't think any funny car racers of the 65-66 period were running 7's, and few were running 8's.

Arnie is listed on the all-time list @ draglist.com as running 9.97 @ 145.50 in the Mystery Tornado GTO, doing it sometime in 1965. I believe he did this on gasoline, not fuel.

In 1966 he is listed as running 8.35 @ 160 in the Tameless Tiger '63 Tempest. I believe he tipped the can on this one.

In 1967, Arnie is posted at 8.30 @ 173.5 in a '67 GTO.

Roy Gay posted a 7.905 @ 184.84 the same year in a '67 Firebird.

The floppers/funnies weren't hitting 7's until late 67 to early 68. These times are not "gospel" as to the exact dates they were run, but are still representative for the respective years they are posted.

Not picking sides in this brew-ha-ha, just sharing info.

[Mike Davis]

Gotta agree with Ray, Dude and Goatman (hard to do) but there is no glory in going to an all Pontiac event and bracket racing. The Chevy, Ford or Mopar guys are not going to look at you as a threat until you are racing against them and giving them a run. I'm impressed when I see a fast Pontiac at any track, but even more impressed when I see them at a "real" race putting the other makes on the trailer. Hopefully with Ray Cox, Bruce Maichle,John Langer, John (GTOKID) Bailey in his new ride, and Keefer if we can get his sorry A$$ out of Fla,this year we will see more Pontiacs in the winners circle.

2003 NSCA/NMCA A/M World Champ- 1966 GTO #421

[Tom Vaught]

Quote by Ray:

"Well at least we got some real smack talk going again"



Question:

"Did he really improve his ET's by more than two seconds? Seems hard to believe."

See below



Quote by ray:

"Now were getting theis post going"

Statement:

"The Tornado went low 8's on Nitromethane"

Thank you for the Nitromethane info, I did not ask George for the type of fuel he was running
just comparing the times and the technology.

I knew Arnie went low 8s but I believe Arnie told me one time he had gone into the 7s at the time.
He might have been mistaken Brian, that was a long time ago. He says he went over 210 mph at one point too. .

I saw a later magazine that said he was at the top of his class in that time frame as far as et and speed.

Before anyone gets a hemeroid about the smack talkin' with George, that is all it is, Smack talk'in.

I know George doesn't have the money or the time to go fast with his schedule and committments with his family.

Takes cubic money to go fast with ANY ENGINE, FORD, CHEVY, CHRYSLER, PONTIAC, etc.

Tom V.



[This message was edited by Tom Vaught on February 23, 2004 at 11:53 PM.]

[Brian Baker]

The same site (draglist.com) has Arnie going 6.91 @ 213.11 in 1971 driving his "Boss Bird" Firebird flopper. There is speculation as to whether or not it was Pontiac powered, but if Arnie says it was, that's good enough for me.

Not stellar performance for the time either, considering quick ET for 1971 was a 6.335 by Kelly Brown driving the Barry Setzer '71 Vega with Pink power. Jungle Jim posted a 6.51 the same year.

Only one other racer that I know of that tried running a Pontiac on fuel in the 70's (and after 1972 no less) was a gentleman in the Tennesee/Kentucky area, driving a 421 powered Vega flopper. I'll post more info on him when I find it again.



[This message was edited by Brian Baker on February 23, 2004 at 11:44 PM.]

[Brian Baker]

Raymond Walker was his name. He could quite possibly be the last person to ever pilot a Pontiac powered funny car on fuel (albeit it was Vega bodied).

http://www.computermagiconline.com/7...nnyCars16.html

[Tom Vaught]

Now here is a really fast Ford Drag car.

Check it out. The driver is everything in this case!

http://www.sdweb.com/musclecars/index2.htm

Enjoy!

Tom V.

Even George might like this Ford.

[Rob]

I guess I have to point stuff out to the old guys again...

In 2003 George can make that same 8 sec pass 25 times in a weekend. Arnie would be lucky to get two or three. Little more smack.

Just as impressive as any "show and tell" car!

-Rob

[Brian Baker]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rob:
I guess I have to point stuff out to the old guys again...

In 2003 George can make that same 8 sec pass 25 times in a weekend. Arnie would be lucky to get two or three. Little more smack.

Just as impressive as any "show and tell" car!

-Rob<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And, racers are doing it today on gasoline with carbs. Back then it was blowers, injection, and pop.

[Goatman]

And once George realizes that it today's world, going 8's in a super light car with big tires is a common place thing, he'll be better off for it.

It may not be at the 3 tracks he frequents during the year, but most of the 3400lb 10" tire street cars up here will blow him off the track and this class is nothing compared to the PRO/NSCA stuff.

Pontiacs are way behind. Its a fact, just get over it.

PY's first and ONLY real, live celebrity. If you don't know, you better ask somebody!

[PONTIAC DUDE]

How many Blower Chevies and Fords do you see Bracket racing?

99% of them can do it cheaper and run the same times N/A.

Not trying to be a jerk, but just facts.

At least you finally see Pontiac racing Heads up. I could count on one hand the Pontiacs attempting it 7 years ago.

Now I have to take my shoes off to count em.

But still, it's an uphill battle and the cost will be twice as much. And 'hope' your competitive.

Fact: Bruce M had more money in his Victor intake then 60% of the people on this board have in their total Pontiac Engine build.


************************************************** ***************************

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