[ta man]

Originally Posted by Formula jg

I also gained 2mph (1/4 mile track) on street tires that spun almost half the distance and the only change was Progression Ignition in lieu of HEI.

The ignition didn't gain the mph, it helped with tuning. It didn't lose any power or upper rpm compared to the MSD setup..that was the big thing. Less clutter and wiring !

[wbnapier]

Originally Posted by jhein

Just ordered the HEI version of this. I'm wondering if I should talk to my engine builder about using it for break in and dyno pulls/tuning or just have him use my current dist and then I would install this myself. My concern is if he hasn't used one before is it going to complicate things for him vs just let him do his normal process?

From memory, when installing the distributor, the engine needs to be started, at idle, timing set to 10 BTDC, engine turned off, key turned to run with engine off, load initial timing map, start engine.

Not sure how I would handle that with a new engine start up. It would be another variable to deal with and complicate things.

[ta man]

Originally Posted by wbnapier

From memory, when installing the distributor, the engine needs to be started, at idle, timing set to 10 BTDC, engine turned off, key turned to run with engine off, load initial timing map, start engine.

Not sure how I would handle that with a new engine start up. It would be another variable to deal with and complicate things.

It not that hard, not much different than a normal initial fire up. You don't need it exactly at 10 degrees at first..after the engine is running and warm then it can be set exactly..not much different then firing a new engine. The normal table has maybe 16 or 18 degrees at idle..so even if your off a few degrees it won't matter.
Or to play it safe use a known HEI..same thing though the initial timing can always be a shot in the dark until the gun is on it.

[avman]

Originally Posted by ta man

I'm trying mine without the MSD..Sure cleans up the engine compartment.

Originally Posted by Formulajones

Oh okay, gotchya.

I hide that stuff, so I assumed maybe it wasn't functional with the new distributor.

Any existing ECU box, ignition box, etc is NOT USED with the Progression Ignition system. The only external component is a 0.7 Ohm ignition coil IF you don't get the HEI style.
I've had my heart set on a Progression Ignition system for my 70 Roadrunner 440 6bbl, and the 572 stroker I will have in the future.
There is NO ignition system for carbureated engines that comes close to the capabilities of the Progression Ignition.
The new "Racing" options add N²O timing retard, LAUNCH CONTROL, and DATA LOGGING. Just the original features were enough to have me sold, but I was waiting for the smaller diameter version. That became available in January of 2022, but when I asked about Nitrous retard and 2-step REV LIMITER launch control, I learned that was in development. Well now I'm finally getting one.
Anyone who wants the "racing" options can send their distributor in for an upgrade. Check with Progression for cost and procedure.
I AM STOKED, and while I haven't had ANY problems with the Pertronix Flame Thrower 3 billet aluminum distributor system in our 421 Tripower GTO, I may get the Progression for it too!

[Formulajones]

Yeah I realize it doesn't use a box but that was never an attraction for me really. I prefer the box and generally hide them anyway. Plus I can trigger it with about any distributor I choose. The boxes also offer capacitive discharge which is kind of a big deal for those of us at these higher elevations, helps keep the plugs clean.

I don't think you get that feature with a distributor alone, so there's that to consider. The boxes do also offer all the other options you listed.

[avman]

Everything is set up using an app in real time, and I don't know of any other ignition system that makes adjustments that easy and that detailed.
I have seen examples of cleaner spark plugs in YT videos after the Progression system was installed. Ideally that can be the result of cleaner combustion under all driving conditions along with what many consider the standard practice of adjusting the idle mixture and AF ratio after a timing change. I'm not sure how "capacitive discharge" helps high altitude operation? Maybe you can explain that?
High power spark to 10k RPMs is how the system works, and the vacuum connection to the distributor measures absolute manifold vacuum so if you set up the timing table at high altitude it will generate an advance curve that gives the best performance.
If you are in an area that has you going from sea level into the mountains, again it will adjust based on vacuum, BUT you can also save multiple timing tables and change them with the engine running where the effects are immediately evident. Same thing for those who may have 91 octane as the most common "premium" fuel, but want a little more advance when 93 is available, just save a timing table for each, and select the best table for the fuel you have in the tank, even moreso for E-85 or race fuel.
I have no problem using a "control box" as that is how my 440 6bbl came from the factory and the FBO electronic ignition that I changed over to operates, and the FBO unit has served me well, especially improving my idle and tune on my 6bbl from running more advance at idle, but limiting the max initial+RPM based advance so as to not have excessive "all in" timing.
One benefit of the Progression Ignition is that I will still have about 20° of advance at idle, but the system is always at 10° advance for starting the engine, making starts easier. I'm also going to set the advance below my idle RPM to a higher degree so when I turn on the AC and the compressor drag tries to bring my idle down, it will maintain my desired idle speed from the additional advance without having to run my idle 150 RPMs higher than I want to for the times I do run the AC. The same applies for going from Park or Neutral into Drive for those who have automatic transmissions.

[Formulajones]

Up at higher elevations I tend to have the cars running a pinch on the rich side so that when we go down to sea level I don't have to worry about it. The CD ignition helps keep the plugs cleaner while up at the higher elevations. That's really the only advantage it has for me. If I were at sea level all the time I likely wouldn't notice a difference and wouldn't have much benefit.

I can get the idle timing up in the 20's with a standard distributor and still have crank at a reasonable level for starting. It requires having the vacuum advance plugged into manifold vacuum. Takes modifications to get it working properly but does work pretty well on the cars that need it. But it takes modifying the vacuum advance to limit movement as well as light spring tension so it doesn't go crazy when engine vacuum changes at idle from high elevation to sea level, so the idle stays consistent.
Or if using a box with start retard I guess it wouldn't matter much how you accomplish it.

The advantage to doing it with electronic control is it's simply easier, with a little more accuracy and pinpoint changes as well. I do like that aspect of it and have had quite a bit of experience with it tuning LS engines with HP Tuners and using Holley based EFI software. I guess it's better for the younger generation as setting up an old mechanical distributor properly is really a lost art these days.

[avman]

Thanks for the explanation.
Here in the swamps of Louisiana and Mississippi where our 2 cars spend most of the time, high altitude is the top of a 6' ladder.
The GTO has been to Pontiacs at Pigeon Forge, and the ride up the mountains was nice.
The FBO ignition that I referenced has the features you listed, more advance at idle and vacuum advance but a total timing limiter so as to not go too far.
I have always dealt with "old school" ignition tech, starting with a dual point distributor in 1978, but the features and "picture based" tables and graphics are easier to use. YES, the Holley HP tuner and other similar systems are the closest thing and more capable too to the Progression, but way more expensive and more for EFI.

[avman]

Here's a picture of the "racing options" equipped unit I just got about a week ago. The "extra" wiring harness with the blue and pink wires is for N²O timing retard and 2-step rev limiter launch control.
The polished aluminum is beautiful and man! very solid feel!