[bulletpruf]

Originally Posted by Greg Reid

And don't forget what I was telling you about the purple wire in the first place, it gets baked over the years and will become a resistor. A volt meter would be more useful than a trouble light because even at low voltage it will light that bulb but the voltage may be only five or six volts when you need at least 10 or so applied by the purple wire to the S terminal.
Basically, I snipped my purple wire about 4 inches from the firewall under the hood and spliced in a new wire. I even made it pluggable because at the time I wasn't 100% sure if it was going to hold up. Now I have a place where I can unplug it and jumper it to the battery if I ever need to.
I even made a jumper with a push button so that I can bump the engine while adjusting valves and that kind of stuff.

Greg - I actually have a new OEM harness, so the wires are in pretty good shape.

Do you recall where the purple wire is routed to? I need to do some investigating.

[bulletpruf]

Originally Posted by george kujanski

Just for information....the starter spinning is a good sign, however keep in mind the situation is different when it's cranking the engine, in the following way: Unloaded, the starter motor draws a lot less current than when cranking the engine.

Assume the purple wire works. Once the bendix drive pulls in, the solenoid internals connect the battery wire to the starter motor, and the starter starts to draw, say 400 amps. if there is a bad connection in the battery-to-starter, or a weak battery, the poor connection cannot sustain 400 amps and the voltage to the starter drops to a low value. The lower voltage causes the solenoid to drop out, the voltage rises, and the cycle repeats. Again this most likely happens with a weak battery or poor battery connections. Several hundred amps will show a weak spot if it exists.

George

Thanks, that's good info.

Scott

[bulletpruf]

Originally Posted by BB70

Instead of a test light, get a fog light bulb and use jumper wires, one to the purple wire, one to a good ground. A fog light bulb will work the circuit, nice blinding light is what you want. You can even make the jumper wires long and put it on the cowl so you can see it from the seat. To test the neutral switch unhook it and jumper wire the wire connector and turn the key, check your light. Good jumper wires are your friend.

Thanks, good info.

Scott

[bulletpruf]

Originally Posted by george kujanski

Shiny: I am unclear if bulletpruf tried the purple wire when the starter was unbolted from the car and grounded externally. In any case, the heavier load of a fog lite should confirm if the purple circuit is good.

George

Starter was unbolted and grounded externally. I checked to see if the starter would engage with just the external ground, but it didn't. Then I installed the jumper wire and the starter engaged.

Thanks

[Shiny]

Originally Posted by bulletpruf

Greg - I actually have a new OEM harness, so the wires are in pretty good shape.

Do you recall where the purple wire is routed to? I need to do some investigating.

If I understand correctly, Greg's fix worked because his issue was in a wire and not in a switch or connector.

If your wires are all new, you might not have the same good fortune.. I know I'm never as lucky as Greg!

The wire should run from the S terminal on the starter to one pin on the neutral safety switch. It probably goes through the bulkhead connector on the firewall to get there. This is probably where Greg spliced in a replacement wire.

On my car, the NSS is mounted on the lower steering column where it is actuated by the lockout rod/mechanism.

A purple wire then goes from the other pin on the NSS to the Start pin on your ignition switch. As I recall, there is a big flat connector on the column with lots of wires (starter, run, turn signals, etc.), one of which is purple. This connector may be a RELATIVELY convenient access point if you have to start isolating a problem between the S terminal and the ignition switch.

You would probably be wise to see what happens with the starter bolted back in place and again comparing the car wiring to your jumper. If the motor cranks with the jumper, but not with the car wiring, you don't have an option but to start isolating.

Others have suggested bypassing the NSS. This would be the easiest first step to isolating the problem if it comes to that. You would do this by pulling the connector from the NSS and running a jumper between the two female connector pins that feed purple wires.

You'll get it figured out!

Originally Posted by bulletpruf

Starter was unbolted and grounded externally. I checked to see if the starter would engage with just the external ground, but it didn't. Then I installed the jumper wire and the starter engaged.

Thanks

By "engaged", I assume you mean the solenoid was able to push the gear out and the motor spun, even though the starter was unbolted from the engine. Correct?

Mike

[BB70]

Sometimes when putting in a transmisson, you may have to readjust the shifter cable or if it has it the linkage that runs up to the steering column from the trans. Do the reverse lights work when put in reverse ? If not that would be a indication the nss is out of adj. Or you could put the shifter in neutral, hold the key in the crank position, and slowly move the shifter towards drive and the reverse and see if it cranks.

[Greg Reid]

Scott, Shiny is correct in my case as I didn't have to get into the nss or anything except the short wire from the solenoid to the firewall. As noted, yours is new so unlikely. It doesn't mean your problem can't be in that circuit just not likely a 'baked wire' condition.

[bulletpruf]

Originally Posted by Shiny

If I understand correctly, Greg's fix worked because his issue was in a wire and not in a switch or connector.

If your wires are all new, you might not have the same good fortune.. I know I'm never as lucky as Greg!

The wire should run from the S terminal on the starter to one pin on the neutral safety switch. It probably goes through the bulkhead connector on the firewall to get there. This is probably where Greg spliced in a replacement wire.

On my car, the NSS is mounted on the lower steering column where it is actuated by the lockout rod/mechanism.

A purple wire then goes from the other pin on the NSS to the Start pin on your ignition switch. As I recall, there is a big flat connector on the column with lots of wires (starter, run, turn signals, etc.), one of which is purple. This connector may be a RELATIVELY convenient access point if you have to start isolating a problem between the S terminal and the ignition switch.

You would probably be wise to see what happens with the starter bolted back in place and again comparing the car wiring to your jumper. If the motor cranks with the jumper, but not with the car wiring, you don't have an option but to start isolating.

Others have suggested bypassing the NSS. This would be the easiest first step to isolating the problem if it comes to that. You would do this by pulling the connector from the NSS and running a jumper between the two female connector pins that feed purple wires.

You'll get it figured out!

By "engaged", I assume you mean the solenoid was able to push the gear out and the motor spun, even though the starter was unbolted from the engine. Correct?

Mike

Mike - Correct, the solenoid was able to push the gear out and the motor spun, even though the starter was unbolted from the engine.

I'll try the NSS next. Hoping this is my issue!

Thanks!

Scott

[bulletpruf]

Originally Posted by BB70

Sometimes when putting in a transmisson, you may have to readjust the shifter cable or if it has it the linkage that runs up to the steering column from the trans. Do the reverse lights work when put in reverse ? If not that would be a indication the nss is out of adj. Or you could put the shifter in neutral, hold the key in the crank position, and slowly move the shifter towards drive and the reverse and see if it cranks.

Yeah, I'm wondering if the linkage is out of whack since I reinstalled the trans.

I'll see if anything happens while I'm manipulating the shifter.

Thanks,

Scott

[bulletpruf]

Ok, back at it today.

First I jacked the car up in the rear and got it on jackstands.

Next, I turned the key to the start position and wiggled the shifter, like someone here recommended. No joy. But if I hadn't put it on jackstands, I'm sure it would have started in gear and then driven through the wall in my garage...

Then I removed the console so I could access the neutral safety switch.

Using a test light, I confirmed which purple wire brought power into the NSS. It's the bottom one. Then I confirmed that the power was transmitting to the output terminal on the NSS. While I was at it, I confirmed that no power made it to the output terminal when the trans wasn't in park.

So, from what I can tell, I don't have continuity in the wire that goes from the NSS to the starter.

Before I undo all the electrical tape, I should probably use a jumper wire from the positive terminal on the battery to the output wire from the NSS. If nothing happens, that would confirm my suspicions on the culprit. I guess I can also get out my multimeter to see how much voltage I'm getting, too, but that will mean the wife has to come to the garage and she and my daughter are baking Christmas cookies now.

[bulletpruf]

Well, I'm glad I did a few extra checks, because I think I was heading in the wrong direction.

I checked the voltage at the NSS input terminal at 7.5 volts. That doesn't sound right.

Then I checked the voltage at the NSS output terminal at 7.4 volts.

And then I hooked a long jumper wire from the positive terminal on the battery to the output wire from the NSS to the starter solenoid. Contact! It spun over, and quick, too.

So, now I need to check the wire from the ignition switch to the NSS; that's where my problem should be.

[Greg Reid]

The output of the nss just goes to the S terminal on the solenoid doesn't it? Didn't you already jump 12v to the solenoid earlier?
If I'm mistaken, you could jumper straight from the battery to the S terminal and bypass all of that stuff. If it starts you know it's somewhere between the nss and the S terminal because you've already checked everything else in the circuit.

[bulletpruf]

Originally Posted by Greg Reid

The output of the nss just goes to the S terminal on the solenoid doesn't it? Didn't you already jump 12v to the solenoid earlier?
If I'm mistaken, you could jumper straight from the battery to the S terminal and bypass all of that stuff. If it starts you know it's somewhere between the nss and the S terminal because you've already checked everything else in the circuit.

Yes, I believe the output of the NSS goes directly to the S terminal on the starter. I jumped it before, but I went directly from the positive terminal on the battery to the S terminal on the solenoid. In other words, I didn't use the wire from the NSS to the starter, so I didn't know if that was good or bad.

Now that I've done that and confirmed the wire from the NSS to the S terminal is good, I need to check the wiring between the NSS and the key switch.

Is it also possible that I have a weak connection in the fuse box? Maybe corroded terminals? If so, which one should I check?

Thanks!

[bulletpruf]

Ok, what's the trick to getting the ignition switch out? The bezel is turning, but can't get it to release. I'm using a paper clip in the little hole, but no joy. EDIT: Disregard. I got it out.

Disassembled the switch and cleaned up the contacts. They didn't look terrible but they weren't minty, either. Attached pic is after I cleaned them up.

Then I got the multimeter out and checked continuity on the purple wire from the ignition switch to the NSS. Got a reading of 008, so I have continuity. Guess it was the switch all along, but I won't be able to confirm until tomorrow; about to head out to dinner with the Long-Haired General and our daughter.

Thanks again for all the input!

[Greg Reid]

Did it start when you jumped straight from the battery?

[bulletpruf]

Originally Posted by Greg Reid

Did it start when you jumped straight from the battery?

Yes it did.

[Shiny]

Good progress!

You are getting it done, even if it's painful.

It sounds like you are almost there.

Sorry it wasn't easier.

Mike

[Greg Reid]

Yes, you are narrowing it down. Electronic troubleshooting is like a crime investigation. You keep eliminating suspects until you get to the one you can't.

[Jim Scites]

Have you tried starting it in Neutral instead of park? If the shifter is out of alignment and the neutral safety switch is not making a good connection, trying to start it in neutral might prove it. Foot on the brake and parking brake applied Put the car in neutral and if it doesn't start try wiggling the shifter and see if it starts. Also you might try a temporary jumper wire across the neutral safety switch connection.

[Greg Reid]

Seems like he's already verified all of that stuff pretty well with what he's done so far Jim.