[Formulajones]

[QUOTE=Tim Corcoran;6464381]

Originally Posted by abefromen

A little gear set info cut and pasted from another forum............

If you are suggesting that my post was a cut and paste from another forum you're wrong. I got that information from a tech at Meritor, the company that bought US Gear and discontinued the product line, and from Mike at Quick Performance. Mike is the one that told me that many of the gear sets now days do not include pinion depth. This was backed up by the guy that set my noisy gears up. I talked to him this morning and he also said that many of the gears coming out do not include a pinon depth.

No not suggesting cut and paste, just that the explanation is BS on their part. These manufactures need to do better.

I have yet to see a set without pinion depth marked, but if I do, I'll be sending it back. I do find it hard to believe that all gear sets are coming out now without any mention of pinion depth. That's just ridiculous to even think. It's really the most critical part of the whole setup and everything else is based from it. To guess at it with gear marking compound is just unacceptable. They may as well tell everyone to toss those $500 pinion depth gauges in the trash, they are no longer needed LOL

That's like trying to set up an engine on the bore and deck machine without knowing if the mains are square. Oh we'll just eye ball it and that's good enough

[Tim Corcoran]

[QUOTE=Formulajones;6464383]

Originally Posted by Tim Corcoran

No not suggesting cut and paste, just that the explanation is BS on their part. These manufactures need to do better.

I have yet to see a set without pinion depth marked, but if I do, I'll be sending it back. I do find it hard to believe that all gear sets are coming out now without any mention of pinion depth. That's just ridiculous to even think. It's really the most critical part of the whole setup and everything else is based from it. To guess at it with gear marking compound is just unacceptable. They may as well tell everyone to toss those $500 pinion depth gauges in the trash, they are no longer needed LOL

That's like trying to set up an engine on the bore and deck machine without knowing if the mains are square. Oh we'll just eye ball it and that's good enough

If you look at my post #36 you will see that the pinion depth is not marked. I didn't say that ALL gears now are coming without referencing a pinion depth, but I was told that some are not and it is becoming more prevalent. This is just information I have been told by what I believe are a reliable source, sure it may be incorrect, and I truly hope that is the case. Anyhow time will tell.

[Formulajones]

Yeah I saw the picture. I wasn't saying you were fed wrong information, just stating I have yet to see it on any set I've done and if I do, they are going back for a different set, and I'd suggest you do the same.

If they are claiming it's the new norm then ya may as well buy used gears at the swap meet because you have just as good a chance of making those quiet as you do a new set with no pinion depth setting.

This is as simple as manufactures getting cheaper with their processes, and having less responsibility putting more blame on the installer, putting more money in their pocket. It's more than likely the reason you have a noisy set to start with. It has no pinion depth marked to set up with and someone winged it thinking the marking compound gets it close enough. It obviously does not. There is a reason these depths are marked and are as a set that can't be mixed.

Guess we have something new to watch for now. What a surprise. Lol

[abefromen]

[QUOTE=Tim Corcoran;6464381]

Originally Posted by abefromen

If you are suggesting that my post was a cut and paste from another forum you're wrong.

What I posted in quotes is from another forum just as I stated. Not sure why you think I suggested otherwise.
For informational purposes only.

[Tim Corcoran]

I found a set of US Gear 3.08's here locally and I will be returning the Richmond's when they come in. East Coast Gear is the supplier I found the US Gear 308's and they are also an installer. I am on the fence now if I will do the install myself or have the local shop install them. Decisions decisions...

[chiefbigb]

Pinion depth measurement is a starting point. The backlash will change the pattern a fair amount. I have a measuring tool I have not used in probably 25 years. The drive side of the old gear looked like it could move towards the inside some and rerun it. Every time you change depth the backlash seems to alter also. It can be frustrating.

[AG]

Everytime you change the pinion depth you have to adjust the backlash. It's good to have an assortment of side shims.

[Formulajones]

It's why I really prefer to use the gauge setup, and set the pinion depth at the recommended depth per the gear manufacture.

I'll take the pinion in and out a few times to get it spot on but at least I'm not taking the carrier in and out and changing side shims to boot.

When done correctly in this manor it's really not all that bad of a job. Once the pinion is where it's supposed to be, I don't touch it again, put my new bearings on with crush sleeve and send it home. Then I'll do the carrier and side back lash.

[Tim Corcoran]

I ordered a set of Richmond gears and the pinion depth was marked on the head. Then I found a set of US Gear 3.08's so I returned the Richmond's. The US Gear set also had the pinion depth marked on the head not engraved, but with some sort of marker or paint. I'm going to put it back together and run it as is for now as the noise isn't bad. I'll leave the pinion where it was since I have no depth spec and the pattern was pretty close, the backlash was at .008. The only issue there was no compression on the carrier bearings, the carrier just falls out looks like it needs .001 additional shim to tighten it up. If it still makes noise after a get some miles on it I'll put the US Gear ring and pinion gears in. For now I need a torque wrench capable of measuring 25 inch pounds to set the preload on the pinion. bearings.

[BB70]

The carrier bearings have a rotational torque spec also. Tim, the hardest part of setting it up is getting the backlash, total rotational torque and a acceptable pattern all fall together. You already have one thing going against you as you don't know where the pinion is supposed to start out at. In my most diplomatic tone, if you don't sweat out that part you need to let that shop set it up.

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by BB70

The carrier bearings have a rotational torque spec also.

But how would you measure that? By the time you'd be getting the carrier bearings adjusted, the pinion is in the way. Can't rotate the carrier without turning the pinion, too.

What I saw on the differential I installed (10.5" full-float under a '97 K2500) is a preload spec, not a rotational torque spec.

Originally Posted by BB70

You already have one thing going against you as you don't know where the pinion is supposed to start out at. In my most diplomatic tone, if you don't sweat out that part you need to let that shop set it up.

Yes.

I did see several YouTube videos where a guy uses a digital caliper to measure from the pinion head to a bar laid across the bearing saddles or cover gasket surface. The bar is assumed to be straight, and the caliper is assumed to be accurate enough. I'm not convinced that either is a good assumption, particularly since we're dealing with single-thousanths of an inch.

I have not used this procedure.

One example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHSgxfKr65g

[Tim Corcoran]

For now I'm just going to put it back like it was and if the noise doesn't get any better I will install the US Gear ring and pinion set I have. My understanding is that if I have the pinion depth set to spec, the back lash set to spec and the pinion bearing preload (running torque) set to spec it should be all good. As long as I can accurately do this then it should be solid and quiet.

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by Tim Corcoran

if I have the pinion depth set to spec, the back lash set to spec and the pinion bearing preload (running torque) set to spec it should be all good.

That, and carrier-bearing preload.

An expert would be looking at the gear-marking compound, but without experience, it's harder to tell what's good vs. what's somewhat out-of-spec.

[BB70]

Shurkey, you get the pinion set up, record the rotating torque, then load the carrier, check backlash and measure the rotating torque. The additional torque required to spin the assembly is the carrier preload.

[Tim Corcoran]

I bought a new set of US Gear 308 gears. I set the pinion depth and backlash all to spec. I am posting some pictures of the gear/tooth pattern. I'm not sure how good the pictures are but I would like to get some feedback on the pattern. Thanks.

[Tim Corcoran]

More pictures

[67drake]

Wow! Those are hard for me to read. What is your backlash at? Sometimes when I get a hard to read pattern, I’ll open up to like .010” , and tighten it up on final assembly. Also helps to have someone hold the pinion as I spin the ring gear, (or vice versa) to cause resistance, you’ll get a clearer pattern that way.

[Tim Corcoran]

US Gear recommends .008 to .012 for street gears. I have back lash set at .009 and it is fully torqued in place. The carrier has a nice preload I doubt I could get another .001 of shim in there.

[Tim Corcoran]

I hope these pictures are a little better and you can see the pattern. I tried using a different marking grease/paint

[67drake]

What I see is coast side right on, drive side could use less shim under the pinion if you shoot for perfection, like .001” less. I think it looks good overall.
Second pic kinda hard to see with the shadows