[Cliff R]

"Then when you talk with Mr average consumer with limited automotive knowledge, the FIRST thing out of there mouth is "I want a cam that sounds good"."

I've heard that a few times, and have been dealing with a customer that has an Oldsmobile 350 in his street car. He spend the last couple of years trying out camshafts in the engine, seems like he doesn't mind changing them out about as often as I change my underwear. He kept buying "custom" grinds from Lunati, and clear down to 108LSA, which I told him would be a poor way to go, but he did it anyhow.

He absolutely LOVED the sound of the 108LSA cam, but hated the "stinky" exhaust and hard brake pedal at stoplights. He must have tried half a dozen cam in that engine, then finally took my advice and went to a plain old generic 214/224/112 grind nearly identical to the Summit 2801 cam for the Pontiac engines.

Now he's absolutely LOVING that engine, relatively smooth idle, strong/broad/flat torque curve, and he claims is pulls harder and further into the rpm than ALL of the "custom" ground short seat timing faster ramp cams he's tried.

Of course he only has the "butt meter" to judge them by, at least until we get his car to the track next month. The last outing was a complete disaster, the car ran so slow in the 1/8th mile that I was considering ordering a Big Mac and a Coke and consuming them before I got to the finish line! The best runs I could get out of the car on the last outing were around 9.80's 70 something MPH, so it wasn't much faster than a Dodge Neon with one or two plug wires pulled off of it. He has ALL the good parts in place that will bolt to an Olds 350, and estimated it made around 350hp, looked like closer to 200hp by the track numbers.....FWIW......Cliff

[dadsformula]

OK, i'll throw in here. Since all of the Pontiacs I've worked on are street driven
and rarely if at all raced, The 068 (blueprinted versions) are all I've ever used.
AC spark Plugs, installed straight up, and always with Pontiac Iron Heads. This
Cam is amazing on the street with the proper gearing, and will start making serious
power at very low RPM's. None of these Engines were over 10:1 compression but
all over 9:2. Yes, it's runs out of steam near 5K. My current setup is a 30 over
455 with 4X (98CC) screw in studs, milled only for cleanup, so I'd figure about
9:3 with my Pistons. M21 4 speed with 3:42 gears. Again, for a street driven
Car, if your anywhere near 4,000 to 4,500 RPM's in any gear, you better have
a wide open, clean road ahead of you because your hands will be full. The 068
is a great street Cam, and very easy on the valve train, so it will last forever if
correctly broken in. Lots of new and better Cams out there (depending on your needs)
but to build a nice Pontiac and just rip it up and down the local streets, very tuff
to beat this Cam for dependable, and consistent performance. I am a firm believer
that McKeller and the other Pontiac engineers back in those days were the best around
and knew what they were doing (slide rules, not computers) Any item they designed
had to take the stress and repeated issues of the street for the simple reason that these
Cars had warranties. Can't go wrong with the factory stuff. Pontiac's were far
better than a lot of others, and their designers were the reason.

[77 TRASHCAN]

LOL
In Smokey Yunick's autobiograpy, "Best Damn Garage In Town". He made a comment that Mr. McKeller was the only engineer that knew what was going on w/ camshafts....

I think that one reason that many folks won't run a 068 or 041 "stock" cam is the essential fact that these were STOCK cams, and that technology has raced right on by them. No way a cam designed in the 60's would be worth a crap.......

With that being said, in the second paragraph. This IS the street section...

[bullheimer]

hey Boob Man, jeeze i sure miss your old avatar!

Where did you get those valve springs? i looked for H0 Enterprises and they are no more i guess.

[b-man]

Originally Posted by bullheimer

hey Boob Man, jeeze i sure miss your old avatar!

Where did you get those valve springs? i looked for H0 Enterprises and they are no more i guess.

The VS-11 valve springs were bought directly from H-O Racing.

Of course that was over 20 years ago when they were still in business.

[bullheimer]

that figures. so i read the old stock grinds are still the best for original iron heads yeah? maybe esp. unported and stock press in rocker studs, like MY 061s. . but alot of the equivilent cams cliff posted got lifts over .450 so....howz that equivalent to a 068 with .410 lift? duration wise, yes, but the lift is so much lower. i guess that's really what i need for my 9:1 400. seems like 9 out of 10 peeps love this cam. maybe with 1.6 rockers? or would you still need to elongate pushrod holes and upgrade the studs for 1.6s? and also, if you go with screw in studs, doesnt that mean you got to get new rocker arms and balls? that's how much i know.

[Will]

You don't need new rocker arms if you convert to screw-in studs. The portion of the stud that the rocker ball fits over is 7/16". The stock studs neck down to 3/8" while screw-in studs are straight 7/16" but that won't matter to your rocker arms. Biggest difference is that you can't just torque the rocker nuts down to 20 ft-lbs and go. You either need poly locks or locking nuts and will have to perform a lash adjustment.

Higher ratio rockers on the 068 would be great but yes, you'll need to clearance the pushrod holes for them. If you don't want to mess around with modifying your heads for high ratio rockers and screw-in studs, just put the 068 in there with what you have now and be happy. Should work good... ;-)

[shermanator2]

Might as well resurrect this great thread after a 6-1/2 year break.

How much spring pressure on the seat and at lift do I want for a 068 (SPC-7 to be precise)?

My build is an essentially stock tune 389 Tri-Power. 9770716 heads but a super beefy bottom end. The cam will be the RPM limiting factor, but I don't want valve float before I just plain run out of cam. On the other hand, I do not want extra wear on the cam lobes especially with today's low zinc oils. So just how much do I need?

[straycat]

Been running an 068 in a low Compression 455 since the old 421 Club days when Jim Hand and Gary Carnivale did a series of stories about builds.

[b-man]

Here’s the specs on the H-O Racing VS-11 springs I used on the 9770716 heads original to my ‘64 421 HO. I’m sure anything close would be fine.

Note that the shorter 1.530” installed height of the ‘64 and earlier heads adds a little extra tension. These springs probably on the more conservative side, but I’d say plenty for the RPM range of the 068 cam.

I was running the VS-12 springs (1.71” installed height) on my 455 HO with a .550” lift cam, those springs spec out at only 126 lbs on the seat and 267 lbs at .500” lift and that engine would spin to 6k easily. The guys at H-O Racing certainly knew what they were doing.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by b-man

The guys at H-O Racing certainly knew what they were doing.

Agree!

[77 TRASHCAN]

Originally Posted by straycat

Been running an 068 in a low Compression 455 since the old 421 Club days when Jim Hand and Gary Carnivale did a series of stories about builds.

Seemed like Jim Hand really liked the 068 cam with high ratio rockers???

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by b-man

Here’s the specs on the H-O Racing VS-11 springs I used on the 9770716 heads original to my ‘64 421 HO. I’m sure anything close would be fine.

Note that the shorter 1.530” installed height of the ‘64 and earlier heads adds a little extra tension. These springs probably on the more conservative side, but I’d say plenty for the RPM range of the 068 cam.

I was running the VS-12 springs (1.71” installed height) on my 455 HO with a .550” lift cam, those springs spec out at only 126 lbs on the seat and 267 lbs at .500” lift and that engine would spin to 6k easily. The guys at H-O Racing certainly knew what they were doing.

Yes, they did, Bart. Ken Crocie was a godsend when I was building my first Pontiac 34 years ago. He and Nunzi kept me from making many rookie mistakes.