[Big Injun]

GR-RRReat NEWS! Hope to see it at Tiger Run.

[guidos]

Excellent ..... see you at tiger run!

[Wade Congdon]

Davey,

Congratulations! One thing to note here is that assembling the seal without the crank in place allowed you to really see what was going on. We are recommend that to people doing fresh builds as it makes seeing how the seal ends meet a breeze. Keep us posted.

[blown 68]

hey folks, quick update, logged about a tank of gas, some serious blasts, and a bunch of idling/tuning time, and not a drop underneath. what a feeling, it's NEVER been this way, since i started building this thing a couple of years ago......

only issues now, i have a serious lean condition off idle, and it almost seems intermittent. i have an innovate a/f gauge, so i can monitor ratios at all times. the car used to stay a steady 12.5 to 13.0 at all rpm's, all pedal depths, (heavy load, light load, etc..) but now, i have good idle, 12.5 to 13.0, (it likes it there.) but as soon as i tip in, it starts to creep up into the 15's and 16's, and start falling over itself. every once in awhile, i will feel the power kick in, and the ratio immediately drops into the 13's. i have torn these carbs down several times, checked for pressure, obstructions from tank, the only thing i can think of, is with this new cam, maybe i am pulling more vacuum/different signal, and i just need to recalibrate for it. they worked fine for my first cam, and the solid stick i had, with more duration, same lobe sep, so who knows. i tried different power piston springs, but with this much power available, you don't ever really get into the rods coming up, at a good 1/3 to half throttle, i still have 8hg or vacuum on the carbs! of course i am going into boost by now, so there isn't ever really a need to hit that point in the carbs unless you are onto your way to full throttle anyway, and by then, the secondaries kick in, and it drops a bit, 13's, but not like it used to be, mid 12.s

man, i got into full throttle twice, and this thing is NUTS. sooo much torque, you can just blow the tires off with a little nudge of the pedal at a good roll, back off, then a little more, until they start slippin' again, ease off, back into it, etc, until you are moving at a good clip. when i finally got my foot into it all the way, it just pulled and pulled and pulled. can't wait to get some times at the track. i'm sure my 60 ft's will stink, but the top end should be alright. i plan on taking it easy on her at the track until i get more comfortable launching this thing. maybe it will be loads better with my bf drag radials, i'm sure it will.......

so, i just got a couple of tuning kits,(edelbrock, edelbrock carbs, yeah, i know, but they work good MOST of the time for me and the blower setup... ) and am going to richen the heck out of the primary circuit, and go from there..........

more later folks!!


davey

[440GP69]

hopefully you have a LOT of fuel volume going to that engine, Big pump!! fuel bowls might be emptying when on the throttle then when off they fill back up and are ok for a bit.

[blown 68]

getting closer, put in the smallest rods in the kit, .67 by .038,(something close to that, don't have it in front of me....), from a .071 by .047. also put in the 8hg springs. i don't even think i am getting into the power mode, by the time you have your foot into it enough to get down to 8hg at the carbs, you are too buy trying to keep it straight. soooo, it looked a little better, but with a heavy foot at acceleration, i am still hitting 15's for a/f ratio.

i have heeded uncle cliffy's advice, and i am not going by a/f numbers per say, but what the engine feels like it likes. at 14.0 and above, it sounds funny, and kind of falls over itself, and you need more pedal. so, this motor at or near 'stoich' ain't cuttin' it. she likes it fatter, and maybe that's just because where i am reading it from. (collector). so, she behaves well at the mid 13 mark, and for power, i like low 12's minimum. today, or tomorrow, i will take the tops off again, check primary jets, and fatten them up.

oh, i tried running off of one carb only at a time, progressive style, and the car ran really well, but seemed to still go lean on medium acceleration, but really, about like it is now. so, i thought about trying progressive linkage, i mean, it would be half the accelerator pump shots, half the primaries to fuel for putting around the city, highway cruising, which i do alot of, and then when you hammer it, i would still have all eight barrels of tire smoking glory at my helm.

i did alot of intra-web searching, and it seems more than not, people run straight linkage, and not progressive, although i did see a few blowers with progressive. no one can seem to give me a straight factual tutorial on why this wouldn't work, alot of supposing, but no real data. i don't see why it is much different than two fours on a dual quad, if your not into boost, who cares. besides, i think the ol' mix master up top blends it up pretty good for distribution as well, as far as lean cylinders go from running on one rear/front carb, etc... so, i might try it on for size, compare mileage numbers, and see what we get. i am also going to ding around with vacuum advance, for the hell of it. another thing all blower people shy away from, but i think if i set it up right, and i have a plan, it might help a bit. and with gas prices? why the heck not try it. all i am out is the vacuum can anyhow, and some time. god knows i haven't spent any of that on this project ........

oh, this thing idles SOOOO sweet. the cam p-dude spec'd sounds amazing. it idles at 800 rpm in gear, no lurching, just a thunderous shaking mass of steel and aluminum in front of you. love it. the old cam wouldn't idle below 1000rpm's, i actually had this down to 500rpms, when i was readjusting the idle positions of both carbs, to make them equal at idle. i couldn't believe it was idling that low, but it was, sounded really interesting to say the least! but, i have it set for 800 in gear, 1000 out, and it runs/sounds absolutely amazing.......

more later, for sure. oh, i just registered for tiger run! so, lean, fat, dirty, whatever shape it's in, i WILL be there. probably won't drag it until i get the fuel sorted, but i will make it there for the show and banquet. no storm though, she has family matters back east. sorry fella's!! i promise some sweet pics with her and the car soon................


davey

[flamedabone]

I tried progressive on mine when I first got it runnin. My little motor HATED it. It would barely take off from a stop sign. I hooked em both together and all my part throttle problems went away. But, if progressive works for you, do it.

Also, can you turn me on to the Dudes cam specs? My 244@.050 PowerMax makes terrifying power, but sounds tame at idle, maybe the Dudes profile would sound a little more bitchn'??

Glad to hear you are almost a full week with out anything terrible happening to your little motor. (and the oil staying on the INSIDE is nice too...)

See ya, -Abone.

[Big Injun]

If Storm is not going...I am staying home! Just kidding...

See ya next weekend Davey.

[blown 68]

Originally Posted by flamedabone

I tried progressive on mine when I first got it runnin. My little motor HATED it. It would barely take off from a stop sign. I hooked em both together and all my part throttle problems went away. But, if progressive works for you, do it.

Also, can you turn me on to the Dudes cam specs? My 244@.050 PowerMax makes terrifying power, but sounds tame at idle, maybe the Dudes profile would sound a little more bitchn'??

Glad to hear you are almost a full week with out anything terrible happening to your little motor. (and the oil staying on the INSIDE is nice too...)

See ya, -Abone.

your running a couple of afb's? i thought they were, but not sure.......

anyhow, yeah, mine seemed to run just fine on one, so i may try it. who knows, it may cancel itself out because of the need for more pedal to achieve the same power. really though, i thought it felt the same power/pedal depth wise.......

i am lucky with the idle portion of my carbs,(edelbrock 1407's) they seem to work well. i did drill four small holes, one in each primary blade, about .080. not real big, i did it with the first cam, to try to help my idle, didn;t seem to affect it one way or the other. but, it works well now, so who knows. i can't complain, it idles fantastic, i am tuning the primary jets tomorrow, so look out for more tuning results, getting real close......

cam and company:
comp hydraulic roller lifters,(can't seem to rev these things past 5800, too heavy i guess......................KIDDING!) they work just fine......

harland sharp roller rockers, comp pushrods, comp springs, install height is at 1.8 or so..... about 150lbs on the seat, 350lbs on the nose.....

hmm, doesn't seem like mine is any wilder, but i don't know all your specs, so who knows....... mine idled higher initially, and sounded pretty tame, from the earlier cam experience, but then i started dropping it down in rpm's, just to see what would happen. magic happens! lumpity lumpity bliss to my ears kind of magic.......

comp roller: intake 242@ .050, 297@ .006., .551 lift @ 1.65 ratio
exhaust 254@ .050, 309@ .006., .559 lift @ 1.65 ratio
113 lobe separation on a 108 intake centerline, installed straight up according to specs i believe....(i didn't degree it, the machinist did, said it spec'd out, but i don;t know if it has some advance 'ground into' it or not, i'll check the card later.......)

idles awesome, part throttle is awesome, and full throttle is terrifying.......

davey

[flamedabone]

Here's mine. Warming up in teh parkinglot before the Drags.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=y4biorTaGzM

Yes, yours is bigger. My cam is only a touch over 500" about 244 @ .050. Also, I ditched my two Carter 600s for 750s waaaaay more better.

Keep us posted, -Abone.

[blown 68]

ahhhhh.. finally got my carbs tuned. it took me many hours to figure out what the hell was going on, but i did it. it was a multitude of things. jetting, unequal idles, primary rod to primary jet relation, you name it......

so here is where i had to go. it doesn't sound right, it looks awful on paper, but it runs great, and the readings are spot on with the a/f meter, an innovate cable model i have permanently installed. (man, did that thing pay itself off!!!!)

factory calibrations for an edelbrock 1407:

750cfm. primary jets: .113" secondary jets: .107" primary rod: .071" x .047" orange spring, (5"hg) needles and seats: .098".

here is where i ended up at:
primary jets: .118" (home made...) secondary jets: .116" primary rods: .065" x .037" step up spring: silver, (8"hg) needles and seats: .110".

yes, it looks like a gas guzzling whore, but if i ran it any different, it just wouldn't run right. i might be able to go a bit leaner on the big side of the primary rod, part throttle cruise, to a .068", but the tip is .047", and i don't want to lose my full throttle setting i have. (a/f reading of 13.0) i wish they made a .068 X .037, but it only comes in .068 X .047, and you have to do that in between step with a jet change, and i don't feel like tearing them apart for the tenth time to get that. (maybe later......) you have to have the gas pedal at an insane depth to ever make the step up spring pull the rods up, even with the stiffest springs, basically full throttle. (i idle at about 12" at the carbs, 10"hg at the manifold, so i can't go any stiffer...)

i had 5 lbs of boost, and i was just starting to hit 5"hg at the carbs. yes it drops to zero, but you better be hanging on to get there, 'cuz you gotta have the pedal to the metal to hit zero.....

so, my readings are:
idle, 13.5 a/f

part throttle cruise:
14.0
(all the way up to 70mph, carbs are literally only cracked maybe an 1/8" each....)

heavy acceleration:
12.5 to 13.5

full throttle: (3 to 4 seconds tops....while hanging on for dear life........and loving every moment....... )
13.0 (this seems a little high, but i will know more when i go to the track......)

i have put about 150 miles on her, and she hasn't skipped a beat. feels good. i did a 150 mile oil change today, had slight coppery flaking,(hoping it's just the thrust finding a home, looked like it, no big chunks, just fine sprinkles......) all looked good. i have great oil pressure, although my oil temps creep all the way up to 260 degrees on the highway for extended times, i am hardblocked, and (searched one here) saw that steve c had the same issues. it comes down instantly to 230 when at a stop, but if you are 3000rpm's for more than ten minutes, it gets hot. how hot do any of you get???????


all in all, i feel i finally have most of the major running gear sorted. i am installing an MSD box later, and my distributor is getting checked out, and i am putting on the crane vacuum can for some experimenting. more updates on that later. she's all put back together, scoop, hoods, etc, and loving the road........

oh, i am going to bend,oregon this weekend, (3 1/2 hour drive...) so i will have some mileage numbers for the curious... yes, i am scared to know what it is too.........



alright peeps, dinner time, take 'er easy........


davey

[Jack Gifford]

Beautiful!

[blown 68]

well, i modded up some progressive linkage, and it works, although the motor is much less responsive throttle wise. i would say, that progressive linkage is 'lazier' with a roots blower, i think it needs the sudden rush of air and fuel volume, to 'feel' snappier. i noticed quite a difference in pedal depth to run the same speeds, so, it might actually cancel itself out, as you have to push down harder to get the same speed/acceleration. i found myself bumping up against the second carb, normally at this pedal depth, it would be rompin' somethin' fierce..........

i have not done extensive highway driving with it, (might do it on the way to bend, we'll see.....) but really, it is much funner as progressive, quick little blips are much more rewarding as straight linkage, much lazier, and less impact as progressive.....feels choked. a/f ratios looked just fine with one carb though, which is nice......

me thinks i am going to change it back sooner than later now that i think about it.............



just sharin' some actual facts about the difference between straight and progressive linkage on roots blown motors,,,,,,,,,,







davey

[Big Injun]

Looks GR-RRReat. See ya in a couple of days.

[blown 68]

oh boy. we've come a along way since my last post. read: what looked like a gas guzzling whore setup on my carbs was......well.......... a gas guzzling whore setup on my carbs. another lesson learned here folks, i did NOT spend enough time doing 'highway' speeds during my testing and tuning. also, i learned a ton recently about my cars need for so much time spent in the 'idle circuit' before the primary circuit kicks in......

in a nutshell, i drove almost 400 miles this last weekend,(high altitude as well.....) and averaged a modest......................wait for it........................... 10 mpg.

i have averaged way better than that in a worse state of tune, so i immediately started to re-think things. i learned a lot about the idle circuit, and that my car was running lean there, and i was trying to compensate with the primary circuit. it seems that with two carbs running straight linkage on a blown car, there just isn't much need for me to even get to the primary circuit unless i step on it. so, it seems most of this lean condition is due to a lean idle circuit. i opened up the idle fuel jets(end of tubes.) .006 each, and it has helped tremendously, although not quite right. uncle cliffy has kindly supported my edelbrock addiction by suggesting some more tips, which i will apply when the weather clears. this should get me perfect. right now i am just working on part throttle, cruising, and getting them right, then i will re-adjust full throttle. i have stepped all the way back up to .073 X .047 primary rods, .113 primary jets. i have great readings, 13.5a/f, right where she likes it. any leaner, she slows up a bit, starts to hesitate. any richer, it starts to lug a bit. so, idles at 13.5 a/f, at 650rpms, just solid as a rock. part throttle is better, but creeps into the high 14's, wanting to hesitate, just on the edge, so, a little tweaking there, and we will be good. then i will see where we are at for full throttle. me thinks i will need to jet up, i am at .118, but we will see. oh, and i really need to boost reference for the heavy acceleration. she leans out bad, high 15's, without those rods coming up due to the high vacuum above the blower. (16hg's plus..) so, some creative tapping, plugging and plumbing might happen sometime when i have more time. right now? it will be fine, i am only there on my 'way to the moon' anyhow, so i am not too worried. a little less pedal, she gets up to speed just fine.....

'tiger run' in bend oregon was awesome. met a bunch of board people, got to hang with some of the wangers crew, as i was parked next to the 'ponte carlo', which was having ignition problems, when i see an 'old man' looking for a multi meter. as i am cleaning up a year and a half's worth of dirt on the car, plus 200 miles of rain and mud, i say, "i've got a meter, need anything else? "this will do, thank you, i'm working on the ponte carlo, so you know where to find me". done deal, looks like a trustworthy guy. they get some stuff sorted, he then thanks me, and says, looking at the car, "you look like 'blown 68' would be a good nickname". being as slow as i am, i look and smile at him, "um, i am?" he then lets me off the hook... "i'm old man taylor!" ahhh! now it all makes sense. we continued to talk for a good half hour plus, what a great freakin' guy. he told me some wonderful stories, it was a pure pleasure to meet him, help him, and just have a great time enjoying cars together....... thanks jim, good times........

oh, and i took first place in my class this year. (always feels good after a long journey like this one has been the last year and a half...)

i also met a bunch of canada boys, some folks from washington, california, and a bunch from oregon, a great group of folks, and a super group of cars assembled this year for sure. big injun dave was a treat to jaw up as well, their driver, (brain fart on name, cool dude as well..), i really like those guys a lot.

i had a blast driving that many miles, although my back paid the price of 1968 seat technology, yikes. i got to hammer this baby full throttle a bunch on some back farm roads, that made my weekend right there. i opened up my electric cutouts, and nailed it all the way to 110mph, still pulling like a freight train when i let off. awesome.

here are a few pics, the car next to his new buddy, the ponte carlo,


jim 'old man' taylor and i,


the mountains and the drive, my view,


my 'motor trend car of the year' pic up on a mountain bluff,


and some 'deer door' on a beautiful 1970 judge from canada. he drove a thousand miles to the resort, then HE gets hit by a dear. go figure..........


more later folks, enjoy.....



davey

[mzbk2l]

Sounds like a great time! Thanks for the pics.

[440GP69]

IT was a sweet azz time OMT was great, other than my run in with the motel desk and being stuck at the swap meet it was awesome Davey's car is SWEET sounds really nice, lots of nice cars there, Big Thanks to Jim Wangers! and OMT!!

[360Rocket]

Davey? How many more times are you going to post but post no video of this car?

Your killin' us .....

[Jack Gifford]

Dumb question- what is the doorskin on that "deered" Judge made of?

[Big Injun]

Davey...good to see you and catch up a bit. Next time I see you and your car there better be a blond riding shotgun.

...and Robert Johnson is our guy and shoe for the Ponte Carlo.