#21  
Old 10-10-2021, 11:48 AM
OCMDGTO's Avatar
OCMDGTO OCMDGTO is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Ocean City Md
Posts: 1,194
Default

Cool build and I'm curious to hear how it does in the car.

__________________
Chris D
69 GTO Liberty Blue/dark blue 467, 850 Holley, T2, Edelbrock Dport 310cfm w Ram Air manifolds, HFT 245/251D .561/.594L, T400, 9" w 3.50s 3905lbs 11.59@ 114, 1.57/ 60'
  #22  
Old 10-10-2021, 12:58 PM
KEN CROCIE KEN CROCIE is offline
Pontiac Performance Author
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Rancho Cucamonga Ca.
Posts: 1,522
Default

I would expect more HP out of 248/253 cam. I think Steve25 is correct with his 450 estimate. Extrapolating the torque curve, I would guess a peak of 3600 to 3700 at 558 to 586 torque. what brand dyno was he using. We pulled down to 3000 with the SuperFlow 901 with 697 peak torque.

__________________
GOOD IDEAS ARE OFTEN FOUND ABANDONED IN THE DUST OF PROCRASTINATION
  #23  
Old 10-10-2021, 01:23 PM
taktikian taktikian is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 98
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KEN CROCIE View Post
I would expect more HP out of 248/253 cam. I think Steve25 is correct with his 450 estimate. Extrapolating the torque curve, I would guess a peak of 3600 to 3700 at 558 to 586 torque. what brand dyno was he using. We pulled down to 3000 with the SuperFlow 901 with 697 peak torque.
Ken It was a Superflow but I do not know what # superflow. He tried to adjust it to obtain a lower rpm pull but he said it just made it worse. I agree. I was also expecting 450 h.p.. Down about 15 hp. Do you think a properly running Q-jet would have made up that difference? Thanks,Paul

  #24  
Old 10-10-2021, 01:31 PM
taktikian taktikian is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 98
Question What dyno

Ken, On the paperwork I am now looking at it says " Super Flow WinDyn V3.2 " I don't know if that tells you anything I know little about this.

  #25  
Old 10-10-2021, 04:16 PM
PAUL K's Avatar
PAUL K PAUL K is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Sugar Grove IL USA
Posts: 6,283
Default

Here is the dyno sheet:
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	655589317.jpg
Views:	125
Size:	58.3 KB
ID:	574811  

__________________
Go fast, see Elvis!
www.facebook.com/PaulKnippensMuscleMotors
  #26  
Old 10-10-2021, 04:58 PM
Dragncar Dragncar is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Humbolt County California
Posts: 8,284
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip Fix View Post
For all those that think 4 hole adapters to Q jet intakes "kill flow" personal at track experience. San Antonio track my 455 with E heads small roller had a 72 HO intake and a Brad Urban 73 SR SD Q jet 800cfm that ran good to keep the Shaker until I modified an extra base to clear the Holley/Demon bowls(front a BFH rear esp Holley I grafted a piece off a cheap drop base air cleaner). So at the track swapped an adapter and an 850 DP Demon out of the box the idle was right on and it picked up 0.2 seconds an 3 mph. So I guess it did not hurt flow that much. Eventually swapped on a Torker II that picked it up a bunch.
I do not know about "kill flow" but they can not help. I know of some on street engines and they run "OK".
If one had a dyno session using a RPM intake with a 850 DP but made a pull using one of those pinch down adapters and then made pulls with a std 4 hole you would get a better idea what they cost in terms of horsepower.
This is a very cool build and i was wondering if that adapter cost him the 15 HP more it should have made.
It might have.

The Following User Says Thank You to Dragncar For This Useful Post:
  #27  
Old 10-10-2021, 05:26 PM
Vengeance Race Engines's Avatar
Vengeance Race Engines Vengeance Race Engines is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 386
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by taktikian View Post
I think I know what you are going to say but what HFT cam do you think would have been preferable?
A profile more suited to the application and rpm range. In YOUR engine, with 9.5 compreasion and those lobes, that 112 is hurting you. With Edelbrock heads , a single pane and 10.5 compression, it would be a different conversation. That cam wants to shine up top, and can't due to heads and intake, so torque drops like a stone. If 5500 rpm is what you were after, a profile more suited to work there would have yielded better results. Not knocking what you have. Just an observation.

  #28  
Old 10-10-2021, 06:25 PM
pastry_chef's Avatar
pastry_chef pastry_chef is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 2,300
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by taktikian View Post
Well I finally got my 455 on the dyno. I will list its' components and tell me what you guys think. 455-40 over, unmolested 1970RAIV 614 heads, Crower 60245, Dougs headers 9.5 compression ,original 1970RAIV intake , engine builders 950 Holley
Rocker ratio?

  #29  
Old 10-10-2021, 06:27 PM
steve25's Avatar
steve25 steve25 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Westchester NY
Posts: 14,633
Default

Windyn is just the Superflow computer program for the dyno.

Run it as is for now and see if you want more top end and if so take 2 degrees of that 4 out of the cam.

__________________
Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs!
And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs!

1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set.

Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks.

1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes.
Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph.

Education is what your left with once you forget things!
  #30  
Old 10-10-2021, 06:32 PM
pastry_chef's Avatar
pastry_chef pastry_chef is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 2,300
Default

Similar power from this 455
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=802889

  #31  
Old 10-10-2021, 06:37 PM
Stan Weiss's Avatar
Stan Weiss Stan Weiss is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 5,000
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PAUL K View Post
Here is the dyno sheet:
Paul,
Thanks for the dyno sheet. That seems like a strange fuel usage curve. Any idea why?

Stan
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	ab-fuel-lbs-hr-taktikian.gif
Views:	62
Size:	14.1 KB
ID:	574818  

__________________
Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises
Offering Performance Software Since 1987
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm
David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software
http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV
Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software
http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php
Pontiac Pump Gas List
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm
Using PMD Block and Heads List
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm
The Following User Says Thank You to Stan Weiss For This Useful Post:
  #32  
Old 10-10-2021, 06:40 PM
taktikian taktikian is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 98
Default

1.65 rockers used


Last edited by taktikian; 10-10-2021 at 07:13 PM. Reason: incomplete response
  #33  
Old 10-10-2021, 06:47 PM
taktikian taktikian is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 98
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan Weiss View Post
Paul,
Thanks for the dyno sheet. That seems like a strange fuel usage curve. Any idea why?

Stan
I think carb way too big. Thinking of trying to get the SMI functional and do away with adaptor plate. Don't ask me the cost of the Holley he slapped on-it is embarassing but I am the one who said go ahead so it is what it is.

  #34  
Old 10-10-2021, 06:59 PM
taktikian taktikian is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 98
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vengeance Race Engines View Post
A profile more suited to the application and rpm range. In YOUR engine, with 9.5 compreasion and those lobes, that 112 is hurting you. With Edelbrock heads , a single pane and 10.5 compression, it would be a different conversation. That cam wants to shine up top, and can't due to heads and intake, so torque drops like a stone. If 5500 rpm is what you were after, a profile more suited to work there would have yielded better results. Not knocking what you have. Just an observation.
Thanks for your input. I have run the HO Racing HC-03 (244/252) in the original 400 iteration and did find that it really woke it up from the original 041 cam. I assumed this cam would be analogous to what I have already run

  #35  
Old 10-10-2021, 10:32 PM
Formulajones's Avatar
Formulajones Formulajones is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,794
Default

I doubt the carb size hurt the numbers. If anything the 950 size probably helped a bit up top and wasn't run low enough to matter. In reality all that comes into play with drivability anyway, and that's not something that can be determined on an engine dyno.

I've seen those 950 carbs on 350's on up over 500ci, they are pretty versatile. Once jetted properly for the combo they work pretty well.

I think you did well for the combo you have. I personally would have liked to see more compression with that cam, or maybe a cam more suited to the compression you have, but overall it's not bad and should be pretty fun once in the car. Plug it in and enjoy it.

__________________
2019 Pontiac Heaven class winner

https://youtu.be/XqEydRRRwqE
The Following User Says Thank You to Formulajones For This Useful Post:
  #36  
Old 10-10-2021, 11:04 PM
pastry_chef's Avatar
pastry_chef pastry_chef is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 2,300
Default

Len Williams 455 with stock heads rated about 425 HP.
http://www.lenwilliamsautomachine.co...ong_Block.html

Seems stock intake / heads are the bottleneck around that power level.


Last edited by pastry_chef; 10-10-2021 at 11:13 PM.
The Following User Says Thank You to pastry_chef For This Useful Post:
  #37  
Old 10-11-2021, 08:44 AM
PAUL K's Avatar
PAUL K PAUL K is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Sugar Grove IL USA
Posts: 6,283
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pastry_chef View Post
Len Williams 455 with stock heads rated about 425 HP.
http://www.lenwilliamsautomachine.co...ong_Block.html

Seems stock intake / heads are the bottleneck around that power level.
Fwiw


https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...errerid=134156


A RAIV head and manifold flows considerably better and has a larger port volumes.

__________________
Go fast, see Elvis!
www.facebook.com/PaulKnippensMuscleMotors

Last edited by PAUL K; 10-11-2021 at 08:50 AM.
  #38  
Old 10-11-2021, 08:51 AM
pastry_chef's Avatar
pastry_chef pastry_chef is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 2,300
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PAUL K View Post
A RAIV flows considerably better, has a larger port volume and the manifold has larger rumeers.
I've seen around 200 CFM intake side listed for stock, it that correct?

http://www.wallaceracing.com/ultimateflow.htm

  #39  
Old 10-11-2021, 10:33 AM
PAUL K's Avatar
PAUL K PAUL K is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Sugar Grove IL USA
Posts: 6,283
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pastry_chef View Post
I've seen around 200 CFM intake side listed for stock, it that correct?

http://www.wallaceracing.com/ultimateflow.htm
Not for a RAIV., 240 would be close

__________________
Go fast, see Elvis!
www.facebook.com/PaulKnippensMuscleMotors
  #40  
Old 10-11-2021, 12:00 PM
Jay S's Avatar
Jay S Jay S is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Nebraska City, Nebraska
Posts: 1,672
Default

FWIW…Here are one of my friends 614 bone stock flow numbers with the stock original valve job. I think they likely vary more than the d ports though. It has been said there are some 250 cfm bone stock ra4 heads around.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	B1806C2B-7301-4F54-8393-0F378BBA4FA9.jpg
Views:	85
Size:	35.1 KB
ID:	574862  

Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:03 AM.

 

About Us

The PY Online Forums is the largest online gathering of Pontiac enthusiasts anywhere in the world. Founded in 1991, it was also the first online forum for people to gather and talk about their Pontiacs. Since then, it has become the mecca of Pontiac technical data and knowledge that no other place can surpass.

 




Copyright © 2017