[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by tekuhn

I have no information about whether and how Royal might have stamped engines they transplanted or modified in customer vehicles, but I did have an engine that was blueprinted by George DeLorean’s Leader Automotive which was the continuation of Royal’s high performance service department. They did stamp the block in the same location with the name LEADER and the service ticket number. Nothing else. I can’t say how Royal did it, but might have been similar.

Tradermike wants to know why the stamped Vin numbers are not aligned on your photo? Why the code letters are off set ? Who stamped this Block and what Engine is this and what year is it . Is this a "factory" code and EUN number?

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Tradermike2012 here,This is what I found:1961 Pontiac shop manual General Infomation page 5 of 7 said: "Engine serial # - The MFG Motor Vehicle Identification # is located on a machined pad on the front of the right hand bank of the Block . The Production Engine # is used for production control purposes during MFG.The code in my case is YK and is Automatic with 4 bbl carb. Now that I look at your Photo carefully I will sand down the area( while I have the chance )and see if there is more than just the "P" on mine . Because this extra stamping prier to 1968 is not deep I might have more numbers under the paint. Good find that picture is worth a thousand words.Mike out.

[tom s]

Here is a pic of my factory 62 GP engine,not sure how a 61-62 would relate to a 67?

[tom s]

Here is a 69 400 block

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

There is nothing special about this engine, except they left half the cylinders off. Mikes answer to this is : Are you referring to the four cylinder 389 ci cut in two?They used in the 1963 Tempest with Rope drive ?

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Tradermike2012 said:I found the 1961 service manual general Information , I am down loading this manual so the people on the forum can research this Informative site, unless you all ready found it.What I need is some more Engine Block photo's. So far the forum came up with 1961, 1962 and I have 1967. Please send me Photo's of 1963, 1964, 1965 and 1966 Pontiac Block EUN or VIN Information on both sides of the Passenger side upper Block, just like the others did. If you have a 1967 428 ci Pontiac engine and you have more than the EUN # and the code stamp letters, I am Interested in seeing them also. If you have a # upside down like in my photo's I would like to see that. I am going to sand down the upper top of my Block were the side ways "P" is to see if there are more numbers that I missed due to the lightly pressed stamping.Also the side ways "P" means Pontiac assembly plant . 161 P that a forum member sent in a photo means (1) is series , (61) means 1961 and "P" is Pontiac. Forum member # 37428 is Motor Vehicle Identification #. 181480 is the Production Engine #. "DS" is your code and you will look that up.Please note on the upper Passenger side half way down were the "P" is there are numbers running up to down in 1961 . So this leads the forum to figure out if from say 1961 - 1966 "Did Pontiac stamp there Engines all this way". This is the time to differentiate between the factory stamping's and aftermarket, Mechanic and Dealership stamping's. Mike out.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Note: the

1962 Motor Vehicle #"s run from left to right on top left of the EUN # and code so

they are perpendicular to the 1961 group of letter and numbers. This is why we need

63, 64, 65, 66, to see how Pontiac stamped those Blocks . Mike out.

[tekuhn]

Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012

There is nothing special about this engine, except they left half the cylinders off. Mikes answer to this is : Are you referring to the four cylinder 389 ci cut in two?They used in the 1963 Tempest with Rope drive ?

Yes. It was used ‘61 thru ‘63 in the Tempest.

[tom s]

FYI,not all blocks were stamped exactly the same.Diff plants sometime did diff things.Your still chasing windmills.Tom

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by tom s

FYI,not all blocks were stamped exactly the same.Diff plants sometime did diff things.Your still chasing windmills.Tom

Mikes answer , I am now curious about how each Block was Stamped from 1963 ,64,65,66 please. I want to see the difference if not for any reason but curiosity, besides I all ready discovered some Info. others did not have. The forum is a discussion Board right? This knowledge is " not" going to make my Engine any faster but I live to learn. I was aware that there are some differences about codes used in paper work from one Plant to another. The ones they stick behind the seats and doors plus there are differences in the Body Metal Tags also(or so I red) from plant to plant.

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by tom s

FYI,not all blocks were stamped exactly the same.Diff plants sometime did diff things.Your still chasing windmills.Tom

Or chasing magic unicorns with the Oompa Loompas....

Asking the same question in a different way and expecting different answers - more like hunting for the answer you want - is textbook borderline insanity.....

Factory engine markings varied from year to year, from plant to plant, even from shift to shift. They followed a pattern, but it was humans stamping them, so sh*t happened.

The extra numbers are absolutely markings from a machine shop that did work on the engine at some point in the past. Almost every professional machine shop we've had do machine work on any of our blocks or heads WANTED to stamp them with their job number - we had to remind them NOT to stamp any new markings.

We've seen the 'job' or 'ticket' numbers stamped on literally dozens of engines and even more cylinder heads. It's just a useless number at this point.

It's a great base for a performance engine. Build it and use it.

Nothing else matters.

Don't waste any more brain sells on it. Just enjoy it.

[tekuhn]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

Or chasing magic unicorns with the Oompa Loompas....

Asking the same question in a different way and expecting different answers - more like hunting for the answer you want - is textbook borderline insanity.....

Factory engine markings varied from year to year, from plant to plant, even from shift to shift. They followed a pattern, but it was humans stamping them, so sh*t happened.

The extra numbers are absolutely markings from a machine shop that did work on the engine at some point in the past. Almost every professional machine shop we've had do machine work on any of our blocks or heads WANTED to stamp them with their job number - we had to remind them NOT to stamp any new markings.

We've seen the 'job' or 'ticket' numbers stamped on literally dozens of engines and even more cylinder heads. It's just a useless number at this point.

It's a great base for a performance engine. Build it and use it.

Nothing else matters.

Don't waste any more brain sells on it. Just enjoy it.

Sounds like good summary to end on. You’ll never convince anyone the factory installed a ‘66 tri-power and a 10 year old cam that’s milder than an 068 as some kind of special order package.

[Joe's Garage]

But I must have lost a few while replying......

[tekuhn]

I might not have worded that well. MIKE will never convince anyone it was factory assembled. I was agreeing with you.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

I sanded down the upper left side of my Block below the passenger side Head and to the left of the EUN number (better than before) and only found the letter "P" that remains . The letter "P" is the Pontiac assembly Plant , we did not no that before or you would have told me. Thus: from 1961 and 1962 through my 1967 Engine the "P" is stamped in the same place from the factory, now a fact and before no one knew what it meant. The Motor Vehicle Identification # flows from up and down to side to side between 61-62 to the extreme left and toward the center of the machined pad. Interesting,But no one knew what that stamp meant ether. I wonder what Blocks were stamped like in 1963,64,65,and 1966 ? This is my Question to the forum and no Question is a bad Question. Since I don't have the vast knowledge as you folks let me learn so that I may hold an Intelligent conversation with people that are more experienced than I . I have spent the last 7 years or more building this 1979 Vehicle with out ever asking a Question to any forum. The minute I got on this forum I have been thrown under the Bus and even moved to the Street section, which is to the back of the Bus. Some people did not like the way I capitalized my words and how I grouped the words with out paragraphing each topic. I was Informed that in Street forum anything can be asked. But you unnervingly disregard a simple request for knowledge to advance in life. There might be people interested in finding out the result of my questions, but you scare them away and they follow what you do. Then everybody is going to throw me under the Bus. I am going to my closet to cry ,I will be back when I am done ....Sniff. Ok now, That we got that straight, back to my question, let me Inform you that the reason I would like to pursue this line of questioning is because I am as persistent as you are resistant. I am only curiously looking to see the difference in Block stamps to simply learn how to read my own. I believe that the upside down stamp is "not" factory now, only from my latest quarries did I establish this truth. Now the "P" is confirmed that it is "Pontiac" assembly plant that manufactured my 428 ci Engine. I don't have the Motor Vehicle Identification number that the 1961-62 has, that is why I seek Block Photo's for the missing years . That leads this Inquisitive mind to ask "How do people know what Model or Series Vehicle Engine was in a particular Model year Auto? Identify what Motor went in what Vehicle? We know in 1968 the Block Vin # became part of the Vehicle Vin on the Dash behind the Drivers side Windshield. Since I can attest that the 1967 428Ci Motor Has no Motor Vehicle Identification Numbers I ask again Please send me some Photo's of 1963-66 of your Pontiac Blocks so we can all learn something.Think about this from John Wallace to all on this forum how come I can't get this simple question answered to my satisfaction, could it be that all you want to do is have fun(sounds like Cindy Loper) with your Motor? This is my Post I get to say when I am done with my question. Thanks for Tolerating me MIke out.

[tom s]

Its NOT simple,most dont have a Xra block or engine in their garage to go take a pic and then try to learn how to post it from their phone!If a engine is in the car its sometimes not possible to see what you want so something that sounds so simple to you is not and most people with just driver quality cars that have had engines changed over the last 50 years dont give a tinkers damn about numbers.JMHO,Tom

[tekuhn]

Mike, you absolutely do get to ask questions, and most replies have been from people who were sincerely attempting to answer them. My comment about ending was for myself. I have posted all the information that I have and there's nothing more I can offer. I do not have any '63-'66 engine blocks to post pictures of. I would suggest attending a local Pontiac event or locate local Pontiac enthusiasts and take pictures of engines if you want to build a database of how blocks are stamped. Maybe contact Franks Pontiac Parts and see if someone there might be willing to take some pictures for you. They literally have dozens of blocks available to document.

https://www.frankspontiacparts.com/e...iacengines.htm

Hope that helps.

[jerry455]

Wow, I did not know the street section was "the back of the bus". I am not sure what that means. In school I always ran to sit in the back of the bus, so whatever. The street section is where the majority of the people are. We all would love to be racers but too many things in life come before that. My hats are off to the racers, I love to read everything they write. I learn a great deal from them and everyone on this forum. I am amazed at the knowledge that everyone is willing to share. I feel lucky to have found this forum and enjoy coming here almost every day and seeing what everyone is doing or what problems they need help with.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

I SEE YOUR POINT BUT SOME HAVE THE INFORMATION AND IT IS UP TO THEM TO DIVULGE THE INFORMATION I SEEK AND THOSE ARE THE ONES I NEED TO SPEAK WITH. PERHAPS THIS QUESTIONING WILL GO NO FURTHER ESPECIALLY IF I GET NO RESPONSE ,JUST DON'T JINX ME PLEASE. BELIEVE ME I CAN LIVE WITH OUT EVER LEARNING WHAT THE STAMPED NUMBERS ON THE ENGINE MEAN.I have herd of Franks but I won't bother them with this , the question is to the forum .

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

New Idea is :Any body interested in the lost HO data I once red on this forum I can't seem to access it and the originator of the topic has not produced it yet . I have copied some of that conversation and am willing to produce it ,if even one of you want to keep it in the forum . Here is just some of what I have stored.