#21  
Old 10-16-2021, 01:13 AM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
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When and/or If - anyone reads that only 3 1970 WT7 have been documented with posted documents on this Forum - 2 from Oshawa - 1 from PMD ...
They need to realize that is just the number so far after about 15 years.
It does not mean only Oshawa and PMD produced them - exclusively.
It plain and simple means it is all we have .

Could easily be that ALL the plants that produced 1970 Judges - produced some WT7 cars.
We simply don't know .
We simply have no proof . yet

What we did learn from the few cars that have surfaced over the past 15 years since i dove into them, is not all of them were produced at the Arlington Plant. Which we were lead to believe for about 25 years.

It is up to each individual to decide for themselves about the Baltimore Car that has a small segment of the Bsheet posted earlier.
And at least 3 PY Members have seen the Bsheet in person by testimony.
I do not doubt the car
But the burden of proof is not my burden, on this example.

Many times there will be many who will basically demand a full sheet proof to verify an actual authentic document.
So .... thats all i can say about it.

  #22  
Old 10-17-2021, 12:38 PM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin View Post
... The RamIV 4spd - Red Interior - WT7 was also a PMD Internal Use Car.
An eventual owner preferred it more as a conventional White Judge - and changed the decals and spoiler back to default colors.
Shet Happens both ways
Some more trivial trivia about that car :
It was frame-off restored and later sold for a stack of cash.
And sold at least 2 more times after its restoration.

PY member Cuzn'Greg/GregsGTO's owned the car at one time (unrestored) , i am not sure if he was the one who restored it or not. He did restore a fair amount of RamIV cars in his hey-days , but i am not sure he restored this one. I think he gathered more stuff for it and flipped it - iirc.

He never shared the Bsheet on here (it was with the car), and didn't know it was a WT7 car.
(PMD Bsheets are much different from all others)
Someone got the car and restored it , as a Default White Judge (non-WT7).
A guy in Florida got the car, and went to resale it on eBay (restored), and posted the Bsheet on the eBay listing .

I don't remember now if i made the initial discovery on eBay or if someone alerted me to it asking if it was a potential WT7 car.
But
when examined
it was indeed a 604 (WT7) option car - and the stripe/decal codes backed it up further.

BAM ! The 1st USA Plant Built WT7 was finally documented !
[not implying it was 1st CAR BUILT - only that it was the 1st one we could ever firmly document that wasn't from Oshawa.
So asking readers not to confuse that terminology. ]

So i alerted the Florida Seller on eBay and he shared everything with us, Very Cooperative enthusiast .
He pulled it off eBay and corrected it to proper WT7 Appearance.
Think he kept it for another while longer after that.

A number of years later the RamIV WT7 is back on eBay
Now with a different owner in a different part of the country.
Still in immaculate looking condition -
but had been changed back to Default Decals and White Spoiler, again.

The new seller made no publicity in the listing to it being a PMD Internal Car or a Documented WT7 .
Seemed more like a wife or heir selling off an old car left behind.
No idea where that car is now.

The 1971 WT7 Automatic - White Interior , has a similar type of discovery story.

  #23  
Old 12-01-2021, 09:31 PM
djudgebailey djudgebailey is offline
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I have owned this Judge since 1989 and wonder if it is a true WT7? Looking for good ideas on build sheet location for Pontiac plant.

  #24  
Old 12-02-2021, 01:38 AM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
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The only way to document them is by finding the Buildsheet .
Pictures of the car when it was new/young is about the only other hope.

Usually on top of the gas tank on a 70-71 Pontiac Plant car.
Good Luck

  #25  
Old 12-02-2021, 01:01 PM
djudgebailey djudgebailey is offline
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  #26  
Old 12-02-2021, 01:25 PM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
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I can't view any of the pics you have posted so far. sorry about that
My browser won't cooperate with hardly any 3rd party picture hosts.

You can attach pictures right on to your post on this site, and they will always be user friendly for as long as PY exists.

Another box below where you type the words , has an option for "manage attachments". Click on that and then you can upload pictures to your postings.

  #27  
Old 12-02-2021, 01:33 PM
djudgebailey djudgebailey is offline
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Default photos

photos
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  #28  
Old 12-02-2021, 02:14 PM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
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It looks like it was a factory paint car with factory stripes.
You would have to fill us in about all that though.

If that were the case - and i owned the car - i would call it Legit myself.
Surrounding public would want to see paper proof , as most always.
Pictures from 70 71 72 year spans might buy a few extra votes from some.

Did it sell new at a California Dealership ?
That would be an eye-brow raiser too , since it was a PMD Plant car.
Don't see that circumstance very often. (just once so far)

The build date would need to be at least Nov 69 or later too.

Good Luck on that Buildsheet if you ever get to drop the tank , if it hasn't been dropped before, you might hit the jackpot.

Thank you for sharing your car with us.
Feel free to share as much as you like - plenty of us are always interested in new discoveries of cool cars.

  #29  
Old 12-02-2021, 02:51 PM
djudgebailey djudgebailey is offline
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Default PMD info

Original owner brought car to California with in months of purchase.
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  #30  
Old 12-02-2021, 02:57 PM
djudgebailey djudgebailey is offline
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Yes it appeared to be all original paint and stripes except for LF fender that had been replaced with OEM at some point before 1989. The second owner is still alive and she said she has photos when she bought it used in 1970 but has not located them yet. She claims it had black stripes and spoiler in 1970. I have original owners name but no luck tracking him down.

  #31  
Old 03-05-2022, 11:34 PM
qsalvage qsalvage is offline
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Hey Guys
Lots of great information here. Been collecting Pontiacs since I was 15
Question-has anyone confirmed if the 1971 Judge with option WT7 shows WT7 on the build sheet? I've heard some different stories on the 1971 showing WT7 like the 70s
Thanks again for all the information and research

  #32  
Old 03-06-2022, 02:34 PM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
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The 71's will have it on their BuildSheet just like a 70 .

Only 3 or 4 of the 1971 cars have been documented.
Only 1 of them has its BuildSheet -- and is a Pontiac Plant built car.
Two others have GM of Canada documentation .

iirc - all the 1971 cars have been PMD Plant built cars, so far.
If one were to do an "advanced search" for "threads only" on WT7 , there should be a dedicated thread just on the 1971 cars.
One of the Canadian cars may have been from Framingham Plant.
Been too long to be sure, and my files are currently trapped in limbo.


The 1971 PMD Plant Buildsheet shows that the Hood Scoop callouts and Spoiler End callouts were applied with Red decals on WT7 package.
Held for Ransom decoded that tidbit/factoid.

  #33  
Old 03-06-2022, 04:33 PM
qsalvage qsalvage is offline
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Thank you
I have one I am tracking and I will keep you updated of the findings.

  #34  
Old 03-06-2022, 05:03 PM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
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That would be great, and good luck.

The PMD Plant BuildSheets (1970 & 1971) do not spell out content like the BuildSheets from the other plants.
The option codes have to be crunched to reveal their info.
PMD Bsheet also supplies the color code for The Judge /Eyebrow decals , as a double proof.

The GM of Canada documents spell out their content with hard-codes like D80 , WT1 , WT7 , etc ....

  #35  
Old 03-06-2022, 06:25 PM
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Brewster Brewster is offline
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Why do people block out phs stuff but leave key codes open for us all to see? I would only block the key code personally. Just my 2 cents.
Killer car and love seeing phs either way.

  #36  
Old 03-06-2022, 08:21 PM
SD455DJ SD455DJ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewster View Post
Why do people block out phs stuff but leave key codes open for us all to see? I would only block the key code personally. Just my 2 cents.
Killer car and love seeing phs either way.
Hey Brew! That's the way you got the broadcast sheet from PMD before the days of PHS. I have a few I ordered directly form PMD back in the early 80's that had everything 'blacked-out' just like this one.

Dennis

  #37  
Old 03-07-2022, 08:11 AM
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johnta1 johnta1 is offline
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Quote:
If one were to do an "advanced search" for "threads only" on WT7 , there should be a dedicated thread just on the 1971 cars.
Some WT-7 links:

WT-7 Documents

71 Judge WT7?

70 RA IV WT7

And from another website:

Ghost Cars


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  #38  
Old 03-11-2022, 07:20 PM
70ALLRIZE 70ALLRIZE is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by da judge View Post
At that 1993 GTOAA Nationals my buddy and Quint Stires lined up their white Judges in front of the host hotel. My buddy told me that the Stires car was a genuine documented WT 7 car. BVZ says he has documented three WT 7 cars. I wonder, is the old Stires Judge is one of them?
The name Quint Stires sounds familiar. I was at the GTOAA Nationals in Redwing, MN in 2001 and I had parked my '70 Polar White Judge in the parking lot instead of registering it because although the body & paint were done, I was missing the driver's side front marker light and the interior wasn't that good.

At one point I saw 5 white '70 Judges lined up in front of the hotel. As I ran to my car to get my camera, my wife overheard someone in the crowd state "there's another white '70 Judge in the parking lot, I wonder who owns it". My wife spoke up and said it was mine. They told her to tell me to bring it up into the lineup too.

So she went to go tell me. I went back and pulled my Judge up alongside the others - I'm at the very far end in the picture. I met a guy that said he was taking pictures for HPP magazine and I'm pretty sure his name was Quint Stires. Anyway, that picture with my car in it ended up in the next HPP magazine. Picture attached.
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  #39  
Old 05-21-2022, 06:05 AM
Speedsquare Speedsquare is offline
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Default WT7 1971

Quote:
Originally Posted by qsalvage View Post
Hey Guys
Lots of great information here. Been collecting Pontiacs since I was 15
Question-has anyone confirmed if the 1971 Judge with option WT7 shows WT7 on the build sheet? I've heard some different stories on the 1971 showing WT7 like the 70s
Thanks again for all the information and research
Did you find out if that 71 you are hunting down was a WT7 car?

  #40  
Old 05-21-2022, 08:54 AM
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da judge da judge is offline
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70ALLRIZE, I was the one who talked to your wife. That sure was something when you parked your car and we had six white 1970 Judges all in a row. Everyone snapped a bunch of photos. Then Steve De Mars (a friend of mine from south-central Wisconsin) decided to pull his black 1970 Judge convertible onto the end of the row. It was a classic line as he got out of his car and quipped "There goes the neighborhood." I had never met Quint Stires, but I don't believe he was at that Nationals.

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