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#1
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WT7 Judge...from Baltimore???
So after have participated in many discussions on this forum related to WT7 cars it was always suggested by others that the known cars were all found to be from the Pontiac assembly plant or Oshawa ONT Canada plant. It was also understood that the option was a very early year one that was quickly discontinued so only those early build cars were candidates for the WT7 option. (then why did they show up on 71 Judges?)
During the recent GTOAA meet in Wisconsin I was able to look over a Polar White Judge from MN with RED BLACK YELLOW stripes and decals and the black spoiler. It was a 4 speed Ram Air IV car. The owner was able to produce the build sheet that proved the WT7 heritage thus defying most of the information I'd heard in the past. The car was built in February of 1970 at the Baltimore assembly plant and was a nice driver-condition car.
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1970 Judge Ram Air IV Polar White Auto Last edited by CarlBraun; 07-13-2021 at 05:50 PM. Reason: typo |
#2
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AFAIR Black wing on a 70 was a D80 option Sounds like the WT7 included the D80.. Does look better than a white wing (stock).
"D80 Auxiliary Panel & Valance (Spoiler) Rear" ps yes mine is a documented (PHS) Judge. Last edited by padgett; 07-13-2021 at 06:13 PM. |
#3
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Quote:
1971 would have no Baltimore built Judges. I know of an Arlington 1970 WT-7 Judge. Weren't the stripes supposed to be black? padgett, is your Judge a WT-7 Judge?
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John Wallace - johnta1 Pontiac Power RULES !!! www.wallaceracing.com Winner of Top Class at Pontiac Nationals, 2004 Cordova Winner of Quick 16 At Ames 2004 Pontiac Tripower Nats KRE's MR-1 - 1st 5 second Pontiac block ever! "Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts." "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." – Socrates |
#4
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Source on that? My 1970 Polarwhite Judge is built in Baltimore and has the D80 Air Foil option. Time to paint the wing black and get black stripes? Last edited by Kenth; 07-15-2021 at 03:31 AM. |
#5
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Mine is an Arlington car but came with a white wing, I just like black better.
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#6
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WT7
the car was purchased from an east coast collector. I believe it was sold on ebay with no motor or trans. that east coast collector confirms it was a real WT7 car.
I was able to watch the owner show another show goer the binder with the build sheet. I didn't take a photo of the build sheet as i thought that was a bit too much but i did get a shot of the PHS sheet that was on the dash. Both show participants commented that they'd never seen a real WT7 car and, for me too, it was my first. I started this thread after reading LOTS of past threads related to WT7 cars and how they were only built at Pontiac/Oshawa assembly and they were only early build cars. I was researching this early on as my Polar White car was purchased with a black wing and the wrong stripe combo. After confirming that my car rolled off of the transport in June of 1970 with a white wing and red blue yellow stripes, i understood the car wasn't a real WT7 car...and no build sheet with my car. However, even back in 1974 the original owner thought that painting the wing black was the thing to do. I have a photo of my car from 74 with big ass slicks, bullet mirrors and a black wing. The original owner told me that "painting the wing black was a popular thing to do since all of the advertising literature showed black winged cars". The original owners dad worked at the Yoder Pontiac dealership in McAllen, TX where the car was ordered and said they had a poster on the wall with a 70 Judge RAIV with a black wing and that's the way they ordered it but it came in (from Arlington) with a white wing and blue stripes.
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1970 Judge Ram Air IV Polar White Auto |
#7
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John Wallace - johnta1 Pontiac Power RULES !!! www.wallaceracing.com Winner of Top Class at Pontiac Nationals, 2004 Cordova Winner of Quick 16 At Ames 2004 Pontiac Tripower Nats KRE's MR-1 - 1st 5 second Pontiac block ever! "Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts." "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." – Socrates |
#8
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This might help ya
Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk |
#9
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Cool!
Does it say WT 7 next to the decal option?
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John Wallace - johnta1 Pontiac Power RULES !!! www.wallaceracing.com Winner of Top Class at Pontiac Nationals, 2004 Cordova Winner of Quick 16 At Ames 2004 Pontiac Tripower Nats KRE's MR-1 - 1st 5 second Pontiac block ever! "Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts." "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." – Socrates |
#10
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photos
photos
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#11
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It looks like it was a factory paint car with factory stripes.
You would have to fill us in about all that though. If that were the case - and i owned the car - i would call it Legit myself. Surrounding public would want to see paper proof , as most always. Pictures from 70 71 72 year spans might buy a few extra votes from some. Did it sell new at a California Dealership ? That would be an eye-brow raiser too , since it was a PMD Plant car. Don't see that circumstance very often. (just once so far) The build date would need to be at least Nov 69 or later too. Good Luck on that Buildsheet if you ever get to drop the tank , if it hasn't been dropped before, you might hit the jackpot. Thank you for sharing your car with us. Feel free to share as much as you like - plenty of us are always interested in new discoveries of cool cars. |
#12
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PMD info
Original owner brought car to California with in months of purchase.
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#13
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Yes it appeared to be all original paint and stripes except for LF fender that had been replaced with OEM at some point before 1989. The second owner is still alive and she said she has photos when she bought it used in 1970 but has not located them yet. She claims it had black stripes and spoiler in 1970. I have original owners name but no luck tracking him down.
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#14
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That's how I read it Kenth... Of course we know after decades of examining original build sheets that all GM vehicles of the late '60's & 70's received a D80 on their build sheet for a factory installed rear spoiler. In the end, his original assertion is just more babble.
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Buzzards gotta eat... same as worms. |
#15
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Thanks for telling us about your discovery Carl.
Maybe someday they will care to share it with us. I've been real involved with tracking down any and all info and trying to document WT7 cars for a pretty good while. Have never seen it said that "all" 1970 WT7's were exclusively produced in Pontiac and Oshawa. It has been stated many times that "all the documented cars - so far - have been PMD or Oshawa" . Very different meanings with those terminologies. Same with build date timeframes - have never seen it stated that it had to be an early car. It wasn't available until mid-year prodcution in 1970 and continued without interruption as far as we know, until 71 Judge production stopped. And it still stands that no one has produced a document (buildsheet) for a WT7 from anywhere other than those 2 plants. Rare4K may have just shown us a partial buildsheet for a 1970 WT7 from Baltimore. That would be COOL ! There is another Baltimore car rumored - a RamAirIV 4speed. It was for sale in Charlotte NC several several years ago. Owner would not communicate or share the Buildsheet - he said he had it in his description, when it was on charlotte craigslist. Don King inspected the same car at some point later on and said he saw the Buildsheet and it was legit. But he didn't buy the car. He also didn't care to share a picture of the Bsheet with us. Wrong engine , converted to Automatic , semi-restored kinda. Wanted around 50k Someone later joined PY and claimed to have bought that car , and that they have the Bsheet. And then they vanished I will not declare any car in any study i have participated in as legit or count it in a Roll Call or Registry until the Documents Are Posted. Makes no good sense to me and could seem as corrupted integrity. If they don't want to share or document a rarity - thats fine. hear-say , they-say , hip-hip-hooray Someone else can start their own registry and see how well that flies. You'll have 300 of them before you know it with hear-say they-say I think we have only documented four or five 1970 WT7 cars so far on PY. For a long time - there were NONE / ZERO Nowhere close to enough specimens to declare anything much at all really. We can only examine the cars that have proved themselves by documentation. We are working against a claim of 51 cars all supposedly built at Arlington We do not have an Arlington Car documented yet . We do have a handful from Oshawa and PMD |
#16
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i think the partial Bsheet that Rare4k posted reads as
SPEC BLK DECALS Special Black Decals But what car does it go to ? lol |
#17
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Quote:
Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk |
#18
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I see the white 1970 Ram Air IV Judge CarlBraun talked about in his first post made it on the cover of the September issue of the Legend (along with my buddies Tropical Lime 1971 Judge). The owner was from Minnesota and said he was a member of this forum. I talked at length with him about his car being a Baltimore-built WT7 car. I might be the person CarlBraun alluded to in his second post. Like everyone else, I had heard that all true WT7 cars were Arlington built. The owner produced not one, but two build sheets showing "SPEC BLK DECALS." Over the next couple of days I returned to the white Judge numerous times with my camera hoping to get a photo of those build sheets. But every time I found nobody was around. I only wound up with photos of the black rear spoiler and PHS sheet.
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#19
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Thanks for sharing the additional info on the Baltimore WT7 car .
What other options did it have ? Where was it sold new ? Its been a while, but i think we only had 3 1970 cars documented previously, 1 with Black Buckets 1 with Black Bench 1 with Red Buckets ( Ram IV ) all with 4 speed There is also the 1970 RamAirIV PMD show car that pre-dates WT7 option, but has been considered to be a test bed for the appearance option. {statement from Jim Wangers} Black Buckets 4spd And 3 1971 cars The 71's are a mix of interior colors and transmissions White Auto Blue 4 speed Saddle 3 speed Last edited by Baron Von Zeppelin; 10-09-2021 at 10:41 AM. |
#20
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Just a suspicion but while the D-80 on most cars mean "a spoiler" the Judge package (code 332) included a body colored spoiler so "D80" there meant a black spoiler.
Mine came with a white spoiler but since I like black accents on polar white, my white wing is in storage along with the "unsafe in the driveway" 14x6s, and original sticky steering wheel. Grilles, hood scoops, tach, and wing are all black. Also have 71 side mirrors and a red formula steering wheel to match the interior. |
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