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#1
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in tank pump with carb
Hello has anyone run an intank pump for a FI unit using a carb? Plans are to run carb first and then switch to FI unit later. Would like to know with tank and pump you are using.
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#2
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I don't know why you couldn't use a FI pump, provided it is regulated down to whatever the carb is happy with. I'm sure the pump would appreciate a bypass regulator, rather than dead-head.
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#3
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Yep, do it fairly often. Building one as we speak just like that as a matter of fact.
I use Tanks Inc and depending on the HP level I'll use a 255 up to a 400 LPH pump. The only thing you need for a conversion from carb to fuel injection is the Aeromotive 13301 regulator. Comes with 2 springs, one for carb pressure (0-15 lbs) and the other spring for fuel injection pressures up to 65 or what ever you need. So when the time comes it's a simple spring swap in the regulator and you're set. |
#4
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Mopar buddy has one. I think to go EFI you replace a spring in it. Cured his hot soak issues using it and return line, as well as stabilizing AFR in the heat.
__________________
Skip Fix 1978 Trans Am original owner 10.99 @ 124 pump gas 455 E heads, NO Bird ever! 1981 Black SE Trans Am stockish 6X 400ci, turbo 301 on a stand 1965 GTO 4 barrel 3 speed project 2004 GTO Pulse Red stock motor computer tune 13.43@103.4 1964 Impala SS 409/470ci 600 HP stroker project 1979 Camaro IAII Edelbrock head 500" 695 HP 10.33@132 3595lbs |
#5
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Yep, the EFI rarely will have any heat soak or vapor lock issues because they run at such high fuel pressures (35-65 psi)
One thing I should mention however, if running a carb with the bigger fuel pump out back, a return line is a must do, and it has to be large enough for sufficient flow back to the tank. Otherwise you'll get fuel blowing past the regulator, even with the 0-15 psi spring in the 13301 regulator, it can't handle the ~100psi the pump is pushing. The ones I've done here I find a 1/2" return works fine regulated down to ~6-7 psi for a carb. On my fathers car we used a 400 lph pump in the tank that supports ~900 hp in a carb application at 6-7 psi. It needed the return line upgraded to 1/2" from the previous 3/8 we had for the 140 lph pump. |
#6
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Yup, absolutely can do it, you just want to make sure the regulator spring is set for your carb's necessary pressure and that your return line is large enough to pass most of the fuel back to the tank without creating extra pressure in the system.
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-Jason 1969 Pontiac Firebird |
#7
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Run a Tanks tank & Walbro 255 in the wife's T/A. I had FiTech efi on it and switched back to a carb using a Holley 12-803BP Carbureted Bypass Fuel Pressure Regulator. Works great.
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1964 GTO 501, Edelbrock Heads NA, 3460 lbs. 9.76 @ 137mph 1971 Trans Am Lucy Blue, 11.56 @ 115 1966 LeMans. 462, SD prepped Kaufman D ports. 11.90 @ 112 1976 Trans Am twin turbo 462, SD Edelbrock heads 8.50@159 2009 G8 GT |
#8
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I put a Tanks Inc. tank and the GPA-4 pump in my 75 Formula with a Quadrajet. I run a RobbMc Bypass regulator mounted in the stock Fuel Pump location. 1/2" lines to and from the tank. I set the regulator to about 6 1/2 PSI.
__________________
-- James Work '67 GTO Convertible "Koerner Built 413 500 hp with a Victor!.. I'll run a stock intake." '75 Formula 400 - Daily Driver - Running with my Home Built 455 and TH400 Details here: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=588372 |
#9
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How are you guys plumbing these Tanks Inc units? Are you using steel hard line or push-loc hose?
__________________
I could explain all this to the girl at the parts store, but she'd probably call the asylum. White '67 LeMans 407/TH350/Ford 3.89... RIP Red '67 LeMans. 407/TH400/Ford 3.25 |
#10
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Both. Depends on the car I'm doing.
Current one I'm doing with 1/2" stainless pre bent lines with factory appearing spring steel wrap from Inline Tube. Others I've done with 1/2" AN Hose and fittings. The factory pre bent 1/2" lines from Inline make for a factory appearing and clean install, if that's what you're looking for. |
#11
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6AN Vapor loc hose for feed & return
__________________
1964 GTO 501, Edelbrock Heads NA, 3460 lbs. 9.76 @ 137mph 1971 Trans Am Lucy Blue, 11.56 @ 115 1966 LeMans. 462, SD prepped Kaufman D ports. 11.90 @ 112 1976 Trans Am twin turbo 462, SD Edelbrock heads 8.50@159 2009 G8 GT |
#12
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Using a 87 Buick GN/ Turbo Regal sending unit, pump and hot wire kit in a stock 78 Cutlass tank.
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Eric 1969 GTO - 461, turbo 400, Continental 13", 3.08 gears. - 12.59 e.t. @ 108.43 mph, 1.898 60' 1978 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme- 461, turbo 350, PTC 3500 converter, 9" 3:50 gears. = 11.39 e.t. @ 117.55 mph, 1.599 60' on E85 |
#13
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Quote:
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1973 Firebird Navajo Orange w/shaker,1973 400/461,1972 Intake SD CNC'd,1977 Q-Jet 800 CFM w/ Cliffs Kit,Tanks Inc PA4 255 Walbro intank pump ,-8an feed/return,RobbMc Regulator,RobbMc 40 micron filter,253 CFM 6x-8's w/H.S 1:5 Roller Rockers,SD Stump Puller H/R Cam 230/236 @.050 112 lobe separation 565/.570 lift,Crower Solid Rollers,28150 Hedman Headers,3" exhaust,full tailpipes,350 Turbo,9.5" 3200 Converter,3:42 gear,8.5 posi,C/E slide-alinks,Koni adj frt shocks,Best 12.18@110.55 Lookin for 11's |
#14
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Yep, that's how I do them here. Makes for a very sanitary and trouble free install, and at a glance, the lines you can see, still appears stock.
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#15
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Quote:
I used TRIDENT "BARRIER LINED" TYPE A1-15 and Push Loc fittings for the first 8 inches or so out of the pump/tank to the stock formed 1/2" S/S line with the spring wrap from Right Stuff, along the Drivers side. Then right at the wheel well, where the line turns upward I installed an Earls ( 5 micron I think), Filter, screwed right into the AN fitting Right Stuff put on the end of the line. The location makes it easy to get to. I had the engine in the car so I could not get the remaining 1/2" S/S front piece that is shaped like the original, installed, so I left the original line in place there unused and ran braided PTFE under the headers to the regulator mounted like Chris did, at the fuel pump location. From there I ran the Barrier Hose to the Carb using a Push Loc and the AN inlet adapter. I didn't use the braided line because I preferred black stock looking over braided in that location.
__________________
-- James Work '67 GTO Convertible "Koerner Built 413 500 hp with a Victor!.. I'll run a stock intake." '75 Formula 400 - Daily Driver - Running with my Home Built 455 and TH400 Details here: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=588372 |
#16
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I don't like the shiny braided either. I use the AN black hose here that is lined with PTFE so it's alcohol friendly. Spendy stuff but it works fantastic.
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#17
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im considering doing an in tank set up with a carb too, the tanks inc units are nice but most their set ups require a big return line & regulator.
aeromotive & i think holley make an in tank module for a stock tank with an internal bypass that does not require a return line & bypass regulator, seems like a easier/cleaner option for some. |
#18
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For a system that runs along the passanger's side, does Inline Tube offer any lines, or do I have to form them myself?
Where do you guys get your steel coil from? Would you guys run pushloc or steel line for a street/strip car?
__________________
I could explain all this to the girl at the parts store, but she'd probably call the asylum. White '67 LeMans 407/TH350/Ford 3.89... RIP Red '67 LeMans. 407/TH400/Ford 3.25 |
#19
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I prefer the return as close to the carb as possible. Yes that requires more line and more money, but it also keeps the fuel moving throughout the line at all times so it isn't sitting stagnant during idle or very low speed conditions and soaking up heat. Internal bypass in the tank doesn't matter so much with fuel injection when you have 60 psi of fuel pressure, but in a carb application with 6-7 psi it becomes an issue and increases vapor lock possibilities when that fuel isn't circulating back to the tank from close to the carb. Most all cars starting in 1971 already incorporate a return line, we are just making it bigger. Usually matches the feed line. Added expense is really the only downfall.
Tanks Inc is really a sweet setup, baffled tank, and in some cases, they offer a larger tank than stock as well, comes powder coated, etc... and most of these old cars could really use a new tank anyway. |
#20
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Quote:
Me personally, I feel it's the better way to go. I use the steel on street and strip cars when ever I can. It costs about identical to buying 50 feet of AN PTFE hose so it's not really cost that's an issue, and the steel line will last a lifetime. The issue becomes whether the steel line can be installed easily with engine in place or without removing the body from the frame. On F-bodies it's relatively easy because from the factory the fuel lines are 2 sections that split at the sub frame. So install is pretty straight forward. On an A-body it's a pretty long continuous piece that makes things more difficult. The AN hose is much easier to install as far as that goes. Just route it where you want and secure it. |
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