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THE LOBBY A gathering place. Introductions, sports, showin' off your ride, birthday-anniversary-milestone, achievements, family oriented humor. |
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#21
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This is what a classic Buick looks like. 98? You gotta be kidding me
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Chris D 69 GTO Liberty Blue/dark blue 467, 850 Holley, T2, Edelbrock Dport 310cfm w Ram Air manifolds, HFT 245/251D .561/.594L, T400, 9" w 3.50s 3905lbs 11.59@ 114, 1.57/ 60' |
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#22
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Technically a 25 year old car is considered a classic. It is enough to get an antique plate in the state of Michigan. Buick's have been a favored brand in China since the 1930's when the ruler then, Cheng Ki Shek, had a Buick and it was looked on as a great brand. He was also a great supporter of America. The Flying Tigers were founded under his reign further endearing the Chinese people to America. The communist government does not like us but the people still do. It is funny how everyone hates on the Aztek but Honda makes an equally ugly Element and everyone thinks it is great. That is one ugly vehicle. I am also mad at GM about dropping Pontiac. I work at the GM Warren Technical Center and I still let my opinion about them dropping Pontiac. I had a 2016 Buick Regal GS with a turbo 2.0 4 cylinder and that car was fantastic. It was fairly quick, handled great and was a very nice car to drive. If I had not needed a truck to pull a travel trailer my wife bought, I still would have the Regal. I drive a 2018 Colorado Z71 and my wife has a 2013 Camaro SS,. Her car is a blast to drive. It is faster than my 1976 Firebird, until my new engine is done.
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#23
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We’re waiting on a Chevy Trax from Korea. Why not just buy a Kia?
I still ask at the GM press events in Detroit, WHERE ARE THE NEW PONTIACS AT? |
#24
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Obviously the 60s-early 70's Buick GS/GSX were good cars. But, I've never known anyone who had one. The Grand National was OK for it's time but that's not saying much. Other than that, I don't know. Pontiac has made many great cars over the years. That's the brand they should have saved. But they probably say the opposite on the Buick forums.
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70 TA, 467 cid IAII, Edelbrock D-port heads, 9.94:1, Butler HR 236/242 @ .050, 520/540 lift, 112 LSA, Ray Klemm calibrated Q-jet, TKX (2.87 1st/.81 OD), 3.31 rear https://youtube.com/shorts/gG15nb4FWeo?feature=share |
#25
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Pontiac’s problem was always CHEVY and it’s stupid protect the camaro and corvette at all. Costs attitude . If they’d have left well enough alone and let Pontiac do what it wanted from 63 on they’d have had something special but noooo gotta protect the crap cars. My 69 350 4 bbl 69 bird convertible gets 21 MPG and my turbo charged 455 gets 17 mpg and will click off 9s at will . The engine design with good rods is better than any Chevy POS save for the LS maybe . It was only the aftermarket that saved Chevy cause people were yanking them Out and dropping in 389 tri powers before that. (Yes even in vettes) Honestly I’d buy a dodge before I’d buy anything GM new . At least they are true to the American muscle car . GM sucks these days . Make NOTHING I’d want. I’ve had 21 69 birds have 3 right now but aside from the TA between 73 and the G8 years they also made nothing I’d be interested in buying new. Only the trans am kept me brand loyal. Through those years( I had an 87 t/a that was a nice handling fun car). But that’s not Pontiac’s fault , that was the corporate bean counters cutting Pontiac’s nuts off and taking away its racing program first then it’s own engine program. My daily drivers are dodge diesel pick ups and infinity SUVs But my buddies (previous GM guys) all have new high HP mopars. Hell cats etc and they are what we dreamed cars could be again in the 80s and 90s Can you imagine if we had a trans am today with an all alluminum 400- 455 Pontiac w a turbo today? Make 1000 hp easily and get killer mileage when out of boost to lay waste to the hellcat and mustangs ??? Doesn’t matter it’ll all be electric self driving crap boxes soon following GPS or magnetic markers in the road and everything will have preset MPH
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Happiness is just a turbocharger away! 960 HP @ 11 psi, 9.70 at 146. Iron heads, iron stock 2 bolt block , stock crank, 9 years haven't even changed a spark plug! selling turbos and turbo related parts since 2005! Last edited by turbo69bird; 10-11-2021 at 01:35 AM. |
#26
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I think you need to check your numbers. Pontiac sold 382,949 vehicles in the USA in 2008 down 21.2% from 2007. Buick sold a mere 154,275, down 23.5% from 2007. Pontiac was selling 60% more vehicles and in the midst of a recession didn't lose as much volume as Buick. Buick's top seller was the Buick Enclave with nearly 1/3 of all Buick sales for 2008. Their actual car sales were terrible. Pontiac had the G5, G6, G8, Grand Prix, Solstice, Torrent and Vibe. There was a G6 convertible, the Solstice 2 seater and the V8 powered G8. Buick had an over priced Chevy Traverse as their best selling model. Nothing of value would have been lost if GM had axed Buick, but we lost a convertible model and a 2 seater as a result of the decision. |
#27
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I was pissed when GM was toying with the idea of bringing the GN nameplate back, but fortunately they haven't. Quote:
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"Those poor souls have made the fatal mistake of surrounding us. Now we can fire in any direction" 1970 Trans Am RAIII 4 speed 1971 Trans Am 5.3 LM7 1977 Trans Am W72 Y82 1987 Grand National Last edited by 72projectbird; 10-11-2021 at 10:21 AM. |
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#28
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Pontiac died for me when they went to the “corporate” engine!
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#29
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Buicks were/are a hot commodity outside the US. For as much crap we give GM, they're not stupid. To say they dropped the wrong brand because you liked one over the other is fine, but it's obvious GM picked Pontiac for a reason.[/QUOTE]
GM was TOLD which divisions would be shut down. The fabulous Automotive Czar and his cronies, {most of who didn't drive their own cars or even own a personal car) made the decisions for them. "If you want the government handouts, this is what your going to do" end of story. When you have zero automotive interest, no understanding of GM divisions, customer loyalty, the meaning of branding, marketing and products, this is how decisions are made. Pontiac brand wasn't in a good position in world sales. That's not my argument. What really bothers me is my Tax dollars were used to save GM who had been pissing on Pontiac for 40 years because China was buying more Buicks. I will NEVER buy a new GM product and I am quite sure GM couldn't car a less. |
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#30
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To be illegible for AACA status ( Antique Automobile club of America) that would be 25 years old. Any modified car negates everything said above and makes a modified car a collectible car if it's worthy. My opinion on Pontiac is; When G.M. started putting other corporate engines in a Pontiac the game was over. I was raised to understand that the engine was the heart and soul of the Brand. After considerable reading about Pontiac's history, including all of the politicking that went on over the years I am really surprised Pontiac lasted as long as it did. Guys like Ed Cole really had it in for Pontiac and it's top managers. When the corporate Pontiac did get the ax it was selling more cars in the states than Buick. The Chinese connection with G.M. / Buick and the big move of most of engineering to China tells me there is no more allegiance in this company called G.M. To think during WW2 a U.S. president making a G.M. president head of U.S. wartime production. Today that would be impossible and unthinkable considering the issues with what China is doing. |
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#31
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I guess I never understood why they could not keep Pontiac in the US and sell Buick’s in China? It’s not as if they are selling the same car in the US and China, there are many structural, design and safety differences.
Anything Pontiac had was rebadged from somewhere. Never made sense. I have completely moved on to Dodge/Ram with the exception of my Z71 work truck which has more reliability problems than any car I’ve ever had. |
#32
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The you-tube link below gives a pretty accurate view of the History of Pontiac. At the 1:12:30 mark Bob Lutz answered a question about the elimination of Pontiac. For those afraid to open the link the take-aways are; No bail out loans-too many brands cutting into the bottom line. Something has to go and initially they only wanted to keep Chevy and Cadillac; Two, so yes the Chinese Buick market was a factor; Three, Government-how much money did Pontiac make in the last 10 years? GM answer-NONE….Government-PONTIAC IS GONE…. Per Mr. Lutz—when someone is going to give you a check for 53 billion dollars, the choice is pretty easy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Odb0eFs_3xU |
#33
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Also missing is the G8 but that is a re-badged Holden.
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1969 Firebird 350 convertible, t-5, Carousel Red 2008 Solstice GXP 5speed manual, Sly 2008 Grand Prix, Ink Slate, Winter daily driver 2009 G8, Switchblade Silver, summer daily driver |
#34
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#35
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I agree. Not sure how someone can get excited about a 90's plastic bumper car. Different strokes for different folks. Wonder how old the guy is??
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Current Pontiacs - 1973 Formula SD455 - #'s auto orig paint 1972 Trans Am - 4 speed orig paint 1974 Formula 400 - Ram Air automatic 1966 2+2 convertible - 421 4bbl automatic 1967 Grand Prix - 4 speed orig paint 1967 GTO - 4 speed orig paint 35k orig miles |
#36
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Buick only kept for 5 reasons.. Short name and.. 4 plants in China.
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"The Future Belongs to those who are STILL Willing to get their Hands Dirty" .. my Grandfather |
#37
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I think it is funny how people always point to the Goverment handout and that is the reason they will never drive a GM product again. Yet Dodge did the same thing and people do not seem to mind driving Mopars. Dont even get me started on people who drive import cars and wonder why Ford and Chevy are/had to cut passenger car production now and in the past
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going bandit-Reynolds style |
#38
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Maybe if they canned Buick and slated a 2010 Trans Am in the Pontiac line maybe that would have revived the brand a bit. That would have been easy like the old days.
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1978 Black & Gold T/A [complete 70 Ram Air III (carb to pan) PQ and 12 bolt], fully loaded, deluxe, WS6, T-Top car - 1972 Formula 455HO Ram Air numbers matching Julep Green - 1971 T/A 455, 320 CFM Eheads, RP cam, Doug's headers, Fuel injection, TKX 5 Spd. 12 Bolt 3.73, 4 wheel disc. All A/C cars |
#39
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Rebadged Holden or not, a G8 was a great car. The last SS was the next generation of the Holden and that was even better. We never even got the supercharged Holden's here. The Solstice was a fun driving car. I worked on the first driving prototype and the V-8 powered version that was called the Hot Rod car. We built it with an LS7 and that car was awesome. I like the Pontiac V-8 as much as anyone but I like the other powertrains also. Pontiac always had a feel about them. That is why I like them. I loved the 3 Fiero's that we had. One of my wifes favorite cars was our 1986 6000 STE. My son loves the 4th gen Firebirds, particularly the Trans Am.
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#40
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"Maybe if they canned Buick " - too many Chinese like Buicks.
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