[LiL Jack]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kinsler

dick, stop acting like cvwhat guy!! we never did bet, so get your story straight.

CVwhat?

[johnta1]

Yep, it looks like The ECM gang immediately started their usual deflections and excuses to get out of the bet(s):

$500 Dollar Bet

[Chris Petersen]

With all the "predictions" about who is going to drag who with these new untested heads reminds me of a different products predictions..........

Not sure about anyone else here, but karma is a b!tch to me.

[dammen8]

Here is my opinion on this matter...

Personally I really enjoy reading what Lil Jack, KK, John Marcella and Mike Leech, have to say.. Can they be a bit harsh at times? Sure, but they are just saying how it is and they do not sugar coat it.. It should push the other products to prove them wrong.. I see these 4 (or should I say 3 as Marcella is no longer with us) as pushing the designs and for the most part seem to be very open as to what they are trying or doing, and they ALWAYS back it up on the track.. I am very excited to see how the Visner heads do, they look great and I really hope they perform as good as they look.. I really wish Lil Jack nothing but the best with this design. Look at both KK and Leech, both at or over 1000hp with a crap ehead... that is amazing and it shows what can be done with determination..

So let me ask , johnta1 and stan for that matter... Besides calculators, what exactly have you 2 done to further or push Pontiacs to the next level?

Disclaimer ... I don't normally get into these conversations, my pre-workout may have gotten the best of me this morning haha

[johnta1]

So let me ask , johnta1 and stan for that matter... Besides calculators, what exactly have you 2 done to further or push Pontiacs to the next level?

I was going faster and quicker than Lil Jack and Kinsler and the rest of the ECM for over 20 years?

Won a lot more than them?

Raced a heck of a lot more rounds than them?

Don't bully or resort to threads to get what I have?

Willingly give my information to any one without threats, barbs, bullying harassment?

That's just for racing.
I also provide a wealth of Pontiac information with my websites?

Do any of these guys you profess to like actually do any of those things you talked about?

They use other people to get where they are.
They personally probably couldn't do anything on their own?

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by dammen8

Here is my opinion on this matter...

Personally I really enjoy reading what Lil Jack, KK, John Marcella and Mike Leech, have to say.. Can they be a bit harsh at times? Sure, but they are just saying how it is and they do not sugar coat it.. It should push the other products to prove them wrong.. I see these 4 (or should I say 3 as Marcella is no longer with us) as pushing the designs and for the most part seem to be very open as to what they are trying or doing, and they ALWAYS back it up on the track.. I am very excited to see how the Visner heads do, they look great and I really hope they perform as good as they look.. I really wish Lil Jack nothing but the best with this design. Look at both KK and Leech, both at or over 1000hp with a crap ehead... that is amazing and it shows what can be done with determination..

So let me ask , johnta1 and stan for that matter... Besides calculators, what exactly have you 2 done to further or push Pontiacs to the next level?

Disclaimer ... I don't normally get into these conversations, my pre-workout may have gotten the best of me this morning haha

Nothing wrong with having an opinion and expressing it.

I do that all of the time here.

But, you are absolutely correct, I have done nothing to further, push or advance Pontiacs to the next level.

But when some people post up BS which could move things in the opposite direction I will continue to call them on it.

Stan

[cgeise]

Originally Posted by johnta1

I was going faster and quicker than Lil Jack and Kinsler and the rest of the ECM for over 20 years?

Won a lot more than them?

Raced a heck of a lot more rounds than them?

Don't bully or resort to threads to get what I have?

Willingly give my information to any one without threats, barbs, bullying harassment?

That's just for racing.
I also provide a wealth of Pontiac information with my websites?

Do any of these guys you profess to like actually do any of those things you talked about?

They use other people to get where they are.
They personally probably couldn't do anything on their own?

John -- your a jackass

You live in the past and yabber about stuff that you have no clue - your a one way negative WANT TO BE EXPERT. What you provide on your web site is probably copy and past from others and is marginally entertaining at best. Stop yapping about what others can do or not do unless you have absolute proof -- that's BS. I DIDNT HERE YOU CHIPPING ABOUT IT WITH THE RA BUILD????????? Your so one way its painful to read your crap, so just stop and think befor you post, if that's even possible.

[johnta1]

John -- your a jackass

You live in the past and yabber about stuff that you have no clue - your a one way negative WANT TO BE EXPERT. What you provide on your web site is probably copy and past from others and is marginally entertaining at best. Stop yapping about what others can do or not do unless you have absolute proof -- that's BS. I DIDNT HERE YOU CHIPPING ABOUT IT WITH THE RA BUILD????????? Your so one way its painful to read your crap, so just stop and think befor you post, if that's even possible.

Hit a nerve?
Resemble my remarks?



Curt, you're probably old enough to know how hard it was to get any information or parts to go fast with a Pontiac?
(at least older than the Muppets)

I raced where no one had any Pontiac knowledge and did my own work.
Even if I had as much as the guys here have, there were nothing to be had.
You had to make the Pontiac parts work.
You couldn't buy them.

Now a days one can drop a ton of $$$$ because there ARE go fast parts available.

I go by the "Work Smarter not Harder" theory.

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Hit a nerve?
Resemble my remarks?



Curt, you're probably old enough to know how hard it was to get any information or parts to go fast with a Pontiac?
(at least older than the Muppets)

I raced where no one had any Pontiac knowledge and did my own work.
Even if I had as much as the guys here have, there were nothing to be had.
You had to make the Pontiac parts work.
You couldn't buy them.

Now a days one can drop a ton of $$$$ because there ARE go fast parts available.

I go by the "Work Smarter not Harder" theory.

It appears you go by the do nothing and call yourself smarter because you never will fail at doing nothing theory.

I remember warier racing. I met Pete McCarthy before he wrote his last book. I street raced with jim wangers back before and when dirty Ed Dufrane drove for him. I was at several sale/swaps at HO racing and met and felt with them both. I've also delt with several notable people that were not into Pontiac's but big in other brands. SO WHAT.

YOU WERE A NOBODY TWENTY YEARS AGO....AND SO WAS I.

YOU WERE NOT INVENTING ANYTHING THEN AND STILL ARE NOT DOING SHEIT. STEP UP TO THE PLATE IF YOU WANNA PLAY. or stfu

The same heads I made 883 with in 2004 were used on a 540 and only made 745 hp
They were cut back to back same program same machine. HOW? A genius like you might make even less if you actually tried to do something for once.

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Nothing wrong with having an opinion and expressing it.

I do that all of the time here.

But, you are absolutely correct, I have done nothing to further, push or advance Pontiacs to the next level.

But when some people post up BS which could move things in the opposite direction I will continue to call them on it.

Stan

Like coating the combustion chamber and piston top being worth 50hp, or rpm doesn't matter, or how much hp jack should make, like how much power my engine made, or ........etc? Ok.


Good thing your here to stop anybody from making foolish statements.

[Jeff Kinsler]

Originally Posted by mike leech

It appears you go by the do nothing and call yourself smarter because you never will fail at doing nothing theory.

LMFAO!!!

he did something he went slow with a 1600 lb dragster.

[ponjohn]

Does Jack have a dyno date?

[LiL Jack]

Originally Posted by ponjohn

Does Jack have a dyno date?

Probably the third weekend in April.

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by johnta1

I was going faster and quicker than Lil Jack and Kinsler and the rest of the ECM for over 20 years?

Won a lot more than them?

Raced a heck of a lot more rounds than them?

Don't bully or resort to threads to get what I have?

Willingly give my information to any one without threats, barbs, bullying harassment?

That's just for racing.
I also provide a wealth of Pontiac information with my websites?

Do any of these guys you profess to like actually do any of those things you talked about?

They use other people to get where they are.
They personally probably couldn't do anything on their own?

What a butt hurt crybaby.

So you did all your own machine work, ground your own cams, made sand box molds for your own intake, Manufactured your own valves and pistons on your shopsmith at home, used a torch and rocks to forge the hammers and tools you used to cut your dragster in half? Did you make a welder?

your a tool. I'm sure jeff and probably jack can and do, work more on their car than you think. I'll guarantee you john does. I've been called a liar for years by guys with BBC and mopar/ford guys about the size of engines and their performance....REALLY like 25 years of jealous douche bags asking me to pop the trunk after street races looking for N20 that wasn't there, And saying things like "That motor is way bigger than you say it is" or "theres no way that thing can run like it does without ______ " fill in the blank..etc.

What has anyone said about you? "that dragster is way smaller than it should be!" or "but it sure is slow" or "WTF is wrong with that guy.

Your over use of the word bully tells me your an even bigger LIB than I thought. Why not just stop? YOU are gaining nothing, not even the precious gift of people thinking you guys are smart. Its just a few of the do nothings stroking each other. Your pal bruce said the word bully and called you and stan the smart kids, and you 2 went all "oppressed" on us. I'm sure he said that because he considers himself your "colleague". More like partners in nothing but thinking. Sorry bruce but you said both STUPID comments.


On a side note you do have a great website that is helpful to many and deserve a thanks for that IMO. THANK YOU for that john.

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by mike leech

Like coating the combustion chamber and piston top being worth 50hp, or rpm doesn't matter, or how much hp jack should make, like how much power my engine made, or ........etc? Ok.


Good thing your here to stop anybody from making foolish statements.

Mike,
Can you just not help yourself? Or are you just a BS machine.

I posted a WAG of 10-20 HP.

You turned it into a claim of 10-20 HP

Now months later it turns into 50 HP

Sorry be it is just impossible to stop you from posting up this BS.

Stan

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Mike,
Can you just not help yourself? Or are you just a BS machine.

I posted a WAG of 10-20 HP.

You turned it into a claim of 10-20 HP

Now months later it turns into 50 HP

Sorry be it is just impossible to stop you from posting up this BS.

Stan

I guess I can't.....ok 10-20 is just as much BS as 50. Its worthless for making more power. PERIOD. You are/were FOS.

Now if you had said something like....hard anodizing the pistons in a PA application could give a little room for error in the tune up. you would've got a "right on man" instead.

[Tom Vaught]

WAG = "WILD ASS GUESS"

That pretty much sent the tone of the conversation, Stan. So now we are debating OPINIONS. Your BS is no different than Mike's supposed BS. Course I do not see Mike going back and wasting his time "Researching" every post that you have made, (like you do for his stuff). You and TB must be experts at that chit by now. Maybe you guys could work at a Library and have a real job doing Research someday.

My opinion is you guys need to get a life. All of you. The Pontiac Race Section has turned into a "Yellow Bullit BS Section". Thought the Race Section was supposed to be like all the other sections and help people with their programs vs a "Richard" measuring forum.

There is a Clubhouse for that chit. That is my OPINION on this BS you mentioned.

Tom V.

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

WAG = "WILD ASS GUESS"

That pretty much sent the tone of the conversation, Stan. So now we are debating OPINIONS. Your BS is no different than Mike's supposed BS. Course I do not see Mike going back and wasting his time "Researching" every post that you have made, (like you do for his stuff). You and TB must be experts at that chit by now. Maybe you guys could work at a Library and have a real job doing Research someday.

My opinion is you guys need to get a life. All of you. The Pontiac Race Section has turned into a "Yellow Bullit BS Section". Thought the Race Section was supposed to be like all the other sections and help people with their programs vs a "Richard" measuring forum.

There is a Clubhouse for that chit. That is my OPINION on this BS you mentioned.

Tom V.

Tom,
Since I posted the "WAG" I know exactly what it means. Mike on the other hand is the one that has difficult with its meaning. Maybe you can help him out? Also since that discussion happened between Mike and I why is all this research needed?

By the way is TB?

Stan

[GTO Dan]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

WAG = "WILD ASS GUESS"

That pretty much sent the tone of the conversation, Stan. So now we are debating OPINIONS. Your BS is no different than Mike's supposed BS. Course I do not see Mike going back and wasting his time "Researching" every post that you have made, (like you do for his stuff). You and TB must be experts at that chit by now. Maybe you guys could work at a Library and have a real job doing Research someday.

My opinion is you guys need to get a life. All of you. The Pontiac Race Section has turned into a "Yellow Bullit BS Section". Thought the Race Section was supposed to be like all the other sections and help people with their programs vs a "Richard" measuring forum.

There is a Clubhouse for that chit. That is my OPINION on this BS you mentioned.

Tom V.

I think whenever a legitimate tech question or race threads are posted the responses are generally helpful and constructive (i.e. the timing question that Ray Cox asked today).

This is a race/racers forum so you are going to get chit talking...that is to be expected and the nature of the beast. Racers and builders are competitive, that's one reason (if not the main reason) they race.

[twooldgoats]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

...... Thought the Race Section was supposed to be like all the other sections and help people with their programs vs a "Richard" measuring forum.

There is a Clubhouse for that chit. That is my OPINION on this BS you mentioned.

Tom V.

Cold day in Hell: Tom V. and I are in agreement.

Jim