[Jack Ferris]

I had a Comp XE 274 go flat(2 lobes) after 20 or so miles. When I pulled it down the lifter on the mentioned lobe was about 1/16 shorter than the rest. My question is how this is going to effect the rest of the motor as far as the metal from the lifter going through the block? Most flat cams I've seen in the past just wiped the lobe and slightly dished the lifter face. Any ideas would be great.

[Jagtec1]

I'd say it's time to pull it down and clean/inspect. Gotta be some damage if it lost that much metal. If it's not bad...at least you'll know!

[RAIV55]

Originally Posted by Jagtec1

I'd say it's time to pull it down and clean/inspect. Gotta be some damage if it lost that much metal. If it's not bad...at least you'll know!

Ditto. With that much metal in the engine, I'd hate to bet the rotating assembly it all stopped in the filter. For the price of a pan set you'll know for sure.

[lust4speed]

We also just had two lifters chewed up on a new cam, and have just completed the teardown. Things looked fine up on top and in the valley, but we found loads of trash in the main and rod bearings. It wouldn't have taken long before much more damage would have been done.

[T/A Fanatic]

Although it took a lot longer for me to wipe out one lobe (1000 miles), both the main and rod bearings were full of embedded metal. Even the piston rings showed signs of damage (scratches). Fortunately, the cylinders cleaned up nicely with a couple of passes with the hone, and I cleaned up the piston skirts with scotchbrite. Likewise, the crank was ok, and didn't need any additional polishing. Good luck.

[Jack Ferris]

What floored me was the amount of wear on the lifter. Were talking 20 miles here. The other thing that blows is the fact that this is a customer engine that I installed and I broke in the cam. Now I get to do the job again for free. I don't think a Comp cam will be put back in. I've heard many stories about this happening with the 274 cams. Live and learn

[engineer]

comp cams lately getting a lot of press about lobes, suspect it is more than just wrong oil during break in.

[RAIV55]

We've started putting cams on centers in the lathe. Setting up a dial indicator on the carriage and checking the lobe taper. If it don't have a minimum of .001 across the lobe (total taper of .002) we reject 'em. Sent back several cams since we started doing this..... Comp and crane the worst offenders so far.

[rascal455ho]

I've heard alot about this lately.I wonder if everyone should breakin with just outer spring and rotella oil?I've had the same thing happen to me a while back with a doug herbert solid in sbc.It gets you mad.

[Geoff]

I have often wondered also if lobe taper is incorrect or non-existent on these cams that fail. Hardening not up to par also?
RAIV's finding are interesting [ & disturbing ]. I have never believed that oil, or changes in the oil composition, is the problem with recent failures.
My theory is that major companies like Comp & Crane are booming with business & are farming out the generic shelf grinds to smaller shops, where the quality control is lower.
It seems nearly all the failures are off the shelf grinds [ outsourced? ], but custom grind failures are rare [ ground in-house? ].

[Jack Ferris]

There is a company here is Salt Lake that goes by the name HI TECH. The owner and his company have been involved in many projects including some of the EMC engines. They are also currently building 2 motors for a project Year One is doing with some Pro Touring firebirds. During a recent conversation he had mentioned the fact that Comp does not grind 90% of there cams and and outside company does. I cant remember who he said does (maybe Elgin). Since he works close with many cam manufactures Im leaning towards his statement being true.
I know the instructions tell you to remove the inner spring. Give me a break. On a 230 @ .050 cam? Maybe Im old school but in the last 25 years I've never removed the inner spring with the exception of larger solids. And if its the oils fault then how long will the cams last under normal conditions after the break in? I know I will never use or suggest any body else uses a Comp. We are going to send the cam back but I will bet my last dollar they wont do a thing about it.

[Ron H]

time for a bullet

[speedshopmike]

geoff and jack, you better believe oil has some "bearing" in the wear issues of late.
if you don't, get out from under that rock and do some reading; the situation is not a myth and has been well documented by multiple sources, and is a result of federal law changes.
further, you ignore valid instructions (break in on soft springs) then blame the manufacturer for problems.

[P@blo]

Have you noticed every major magazine has done a extensive story on the changes of oil over the past few years and it's effect on flat cams in older cars. Could be the lobes a partially at fault but they don't engineer oil with our old cars in mind anymore.

Good way to send older cars to an early grave which may have been an added bonus for the EPA when they decided to start reducing Zinc.

[DiamondJim]

i am beginninmg to think there is a problem with the hardness of the cores and the zinc stuff(although true) is a convient excuse. Never used to hear of this happening. I wonder if the Chinese are selling low grade steel? -Jim

[hectore3]

I have seen more and more off the shelf camshaft failures discussed on various boards. It's convinced me to reconfigure my budget for a custom hydraulic roller.

From what I see these cam companies and other industries do their sources overseas and cut costs unmercifully. This is the sure way to end up like Ford or GM down the road.

All this bad product is pushing the younger generation towards more factory turbo Japanese performance. I was taken for a ride in a friends Mitsubishi EVO-9. His ride does mid 12 second quarters at over 115mph! And thats just with a 500.00 dollar computer flash. Nice performance from a 2.0 liter turbo 4 cylinder.

I wonder when the Japanese and Korean camshaft manufactures will wake up to the LSx and traditional muscle car market. When that happens the reaction will be the same as G.M.,Ford,DCX are having to the new Toyota Tundra pickup. And that reaction is pure fear.

[P@blo]

Not that the oil is 100% responsable but I bet it isn't helping.

[Jack Ferris]

Speedshopmike- So your saying the oil even though EOS is added causes this? The removal of zinc causes a major failure during the break in period?What about lack of lifter rotation due to improper taper? If lack of zinc is the issue how long are the flat tappets going to last under normal conditions? And who said anybody is ignoring instructions? Dave @ SD will still tell you not to worry about running the outer spring only. Do all the other brands require you to remove springs? Just trying to gather information here as my 3/4 race cam and I are under a rock.

[speedshopmike]

no, i'm let to understand if EOS is used it replaces the missing good stuff in the oil.
yes, all cam grinders will tell you to use break in springs or rockers when installing a flat tappet cam; it's CYA on their part but not untrue.

of course if a cam is ground poorly with inadequate taper such that the lifter doesn't rotate it's going to wipe; i'm not making excuses nor denying that cam problems exist, but the big players are/have moved to computer controlled machinery, and crane's now merged with micronite, and are apparently going to be using this seemingly awesome process on their stuff.

it's well known break-in is the critical period for a flat cam and proper procedures are critical to it's success.
and as we all also know, even if everything is done right there's not a 100% success rate - but it's a helluva lot higher if you do.
as for who's ignoring instructions, jack, you posted above you don't bother removing your inners on break in.
no offense to dave at SD who says don't bother, but the cam grinders say do it.
have i ignored it on my own stuff - oh, yeah, guilty as charged (do as i say, not as i do!) but if i had a hairy set of springs on a flat motor, i would indeed pull the inners (i have break-in rockers for a sbc, not a poncho)

it's so much aggravation to go in after the fact and replace parts and change bearings and whatnot; it seems real silly not to do it right and help guarantee one's time and money are well spent, doesn't it?

[mchell]

Just a question, but what about the lifter bores in Pontiac engines?? Could the lifters not be turning in the bores because of some manufacturing imperfection or some other imperfection not caught during the rebuild process???

Or how about the Lifters themselves being the culprit???

I wonder how some engines you can do everything wrong and still not flatten a cam and other engines you take every precaution and cam goes flat.............will there ever be a clear cut answer?...