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Old 05-21-2023, 11:07 AM
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Default Can't argue with any of this:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/enth...ab1ba0f5&ei=15

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Old 05-21-2023, 11:24 AM
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The flathead Ford V8 does not belong on that list IMO

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Old 05-21-2023, 11:42 AM
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More or less agree. They could have made it a top 30 list and had more disagreements. I can certainly think of 20 more to add with the Vega in their somewhere. Personally, I think the Flathead Ford could have been left off a top 10, simply because of it's historical importance and Ford did address the overheating issues with an improved head later in production.

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Old 05-21-2023, 12:15 PM
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Oh, I just noticed the list was V-8 engines only. That eliminates the Vega. Could probably shorten my list to 20 then. Even my favorite engine, the Strato Streak Pontiac would probably make someones list for oil leaks everywhere and the plastic camshaft sprocket failures. Both easily fixed.

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Old 05-21-2023, 12:34 PM
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This comment on the Caddy HT-4100 "but the worst came from Cadillac's choice to use cast-iron head bolts. but the worst came from Cadillac's choice to use cast-iron head bolts. "

Seriously, cast iron head bolts? I doubt if that's true... I had the 4.5L version in a '93 Eldo. It had cast iron heads on an aluminum block, maybe that's what the ignoramus writer had in mind.

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Old 05-21-2023, 01:06 PM
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The 6.5 Detroit Diesel designed engine had faulty harmonic balancers, which caused the cranks to break soon after the balancers failed. The balancers became a maintenance item after the failures were determined to have caused the cranks to break.

I have 2 trucks with 6.5 engines, both over 250,000 miles, not buying that they can't run reliably if the balancers problems are addressed. JMO.

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Old 05-21-2023, 01:23 PM
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Pisses me off when you put together a great post about racing a Flathead Ford Engine at the Bonneville Salt Flats and the Site wipes your post clean due to a "Timed Out for the post"

Tom V.

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Old 05-21-2023, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by george kujanski View Post
This comment on the Caddy HT-4100 "but the worst came from Cadillac's choice to use cast-iron head bolts. but the worst came from Cadillac's choice to use cast-iron head bolts. "

Seriously, cast iron head bolts? I doubt if that's true... I had the 4.5L version in a '93 Eldo. It had cast iron heads on an aluminum block, maybe that's what the ignoramus writer had in mind.

george
Odd, but ALL the nearly two thousand HT4100 engines I machined had steel head bolts and main cap bolts. It was one of the many weaknesses of this engine: galvanic corrosion in the main saddle and head bolt bosses. George, all of the HT4100 had cast iron heads( which were amazingly durable) on aluminum blocks. If you ever get the chance, lift a 4.1 block, then lift a late 4.9 block. The 4.9 block is nearly fifty percent heavier.

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Old 05-21-2023, 01:40 PM
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American-made V8 engines are among the best engines from the Big Three; even today, they continue to use a cross-plane-crank setup, which is why they sound so different from their European counterparts, who opted for a flat-plane setup. "

James Bimson has got to be pretty clueless to make a statement like that. Only a few Italians did that, plus the lone, extremely limited AMG V8 in the GT Black Series. All the other V8's from Europe are cross-planes (and sound just like American V8's).

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Old 05-21-2023, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirrotica View Post
The 6.5 Detroit Diesel designed engine had faulty harmonic balancers, which caused the cranks to break soon after the balancers failed. The balancers became a maintenance item after the failures were determined to have caused the cranks to break.

I have 2 trucks with 6.5 engines, both over 250,000 miles, not buying that they can't run reliably if the balancers problems are addressed. JMO.
Brad, the cracking in 6.2/6.5 cranks was primarily in early 6.2 nodular cranks. We magnafluxed hundreds a month; never found a late 6.2 (one piece rear seal) or a 6.5 crank that was cracked. Since WHEN do millennial automotive writers know ANYTHING about anything?

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Old 05-21-2023, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
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James Bimson has got to be pretty clueless to make a statement like that.
I think most of the clickbait on MSN is written by low paid interns and not reviewed by editors...the stuff posted there is usually full of glaring errors.

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Old 05-21-2023, 05:17 PM
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They did the Ford flathead V8 dirty.

Sure it was best suited for cooler climates like in Motor City but that one major innovation (first monocast V8 block) opened the door for the common man to own an affordable V8.

It grew from 65 hp in ‘32 to 75 hp in ‘33 to 85 hp in 1934 where it stayed for quite a few years. These engines had full-pressure oiling to all the bearings, unlike their main competitor Chevrolet’s straight six that utilized low-pressure main oiling and babbit conrod bearings that were splash oiled. Not a high-speed engine design unlike the Ford.

The 239-inch 85 hp V8 Fords ruled the highways, they could cruise at 80 mph which was pretty much unheard of for mass-produced passenger cars until their introduction. Even the first somewhat trouble-prone 221-inch ‘32 V8s (cracked blocks and overheating issues) delivered 65 mph speeds, compared to the previous 40 hp Model A that was practically throwing the crankshaft out of the block doing 45 mph.

Part of the problem was for the first few years Ford V8 engines had head mounted water pumps that created low pressure in the engine block which caused the water to boil at a lower temperature. After the water pumps were moved to the block where they pushed the coolant through the block instead of sucking it through like the 1937 and earlier designs this helped but never fully cured it.

Back in those days because of the comparatively crude machining none of the engines lasted much more than 40k miles before needing a rebuild, just a sign of the times and really not a Ford Motor Company issue.

No matter their flaws this engine opened the door for what we all enjoy today, the affordable American V8 powerhouse.

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Old 05-21-2023, 09:46 PM
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They left out the 307 Oldsmobile V8s of the mid-80's that all puked antifreeze from blown intake gaskets due to intake manifold flange erosion.

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Old 05-21-2023, 10:26 PM
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One has to consider that the flat head V8 came out in 1932. It can't really be compared to engines conceived in later decades. It was the "go to"Hot Rod" engine.......until 1949 and was taken out of the picture in 1955 mostly...

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Old 05-21-2023, 10:28 PM
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I remember reading an article In Hot Rod probably 20 years ago about a guy who made big power using those olds diesel blocks for gasoline engines. Made big power at an Engine Masters event.

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Old 05-22-2023, 12:41 AM
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I remember reading an article In Hot Rod probably 20 years ago about a guy who made big power using those olds diesel blocks for gasoline engines. Made big power at an Engine Masters event.
Yep. The Olds 350 diesel block was the best thing about that engine: a high nickel content four block main block.

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Old 05-22-2023, 09:50 AM
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they listed 479 Million dollars in warranty repairs on the Ford 6.0 diesel , that was for those who were lucky enough to still be in warranty. I bet those engines cost the company i work for in excess of 10 million dollars. A good number of those F-350's we just scrapped after their 6.0s died.

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Old 05-22-2023, 11:17 AM
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The disappointment with the 5.7L Olds diesel was the damage done by the first generation clouded perception of the second generation. The first suffering from severe lifter and cam lobe wear from oil contamination. Owners did not realize the importance of the 3000 mile oil change with the diesels compared to lazier practices with gasoline engines. The EGR system in the diesel pumped a lot of soot back into the crankcase as blow-by. Additionally, the lack of a water separator contributed heavily to those blown head gasket situations as well as injector pump corrosion.

I had a 1981 Bonneville with the second generation 5.7L diesel and had no problems except for a fuel gel-over during the big chill in 1983 until about 70,000 miles. One of my GMI classmates worked on the V-6 diesel development at Oldsmobile and and gave me a few tips on the 5.7L for reliability. The roller lifters in that engine cured the cam wear and a water separator had been added in the fuel filter. My problem was worn out wrist pin bushings leading to piston slap and three bent rods.

I found a specialist in OKC that rebuilt them with drilled rods to pressure feed the wrist pin bushing, and he changed the head bolts to the larger diameter ones from the 6.2L diesel. He essentially blueprinted the engine and you could definitely tell the difference with the ease of starting and performance gains. I went another 200,000 miles on the engine before a Texas hailstorm totaled out the car. I never got less than 22 mpg with that car and went as high as 34 mpg on the highway.

My biggest complaint was the wimpy Turbo 200N transmission they used. I went through 4 rebuilds due to lock-up torque converter failures. The diesel had too much torque at low rpms before the transmission oil pump pressure was high enough to maintain the lock-up in the converter.

Still the best long distance cruiser I ever had though.
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Old 05-22-2023, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RocktimusPryme View Post
I remember reading an article In Hot Rod probably 20 years ago about a guy who made big power using those olds diesel blocks for gasoline engines. Made big power at an Engine Masters event.
I did exactly that. Went from 4.057 bore to 4.250, and put in a 4.00 crank from a 425. Ended up with 454" in a small block package, with the nice meaty main bearing support.

In defense of the flathead Ford, it was decades prior to any of the other engines on the list. I'd give them a pass, based on that alone. It was a breakthrough in its own way. Those others, well, I say they should have known better.

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Old 05-22-2023, 01:16 PM
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The disappointment with the 5.7L Olds diesel was the damage done by the first generation clouded perception of the second generation. The first suffering from severe lifter and cam lobe wear from oil contamination. Owners did not realize the importance of the 3000 mile oil change with the diesels compared to lazier practices with gasoline engines. The EGR system in the diesel pumped a lot of soot back into the crankcase as blow-by. Additionally, the lack of a water separator contributed heavily to those blown head gasket situations as well as injector pump corrosion.

I had a 1981 Bonneville with the second generation 5.7L diesel and had no problems except for a fuel gel-over during the big chill in 1983 until about 70,000 miles. One of my GMI classmates worked on the V-6 diesel development at Oldsmobile and and gave me a few tips on the 5.7L for reliability. The roller lifters in that engine cured the cam wear and a water separator had been added in the fuel filter. My problem was worn out wrist pin bushings leading to piston slap and three bent rods.

I found a specialist in OKC that rebuilt them with drilled rods to pressure feed the wrist pin bushing, and he changed the head bolts to the larger diameter ones from the 6.2L diesel. He essentially blueprinted the engine and you could definitely tell the difference with the ease of starting and performance gains. I went another 200,000 miles on the engine before a Texas hailstorm totaled out the car. I never got less than 22 mpg with that car and went as high as 34 mpg on the highway.

My biggest complaint was the wimpy Turbo 200N transmission they used. I went through 4 rebuilds due to lock-up torque converter failures. The diesel had too much torque at low rpms before the transmission oil pump pressure was high enough to maintain the lock-up in the converter.

Still the best long distance cruiser I ever had though.
I also had a 81 diesel Bonneville, 4 dr white with maroon cloth interior, factory red pinstripe. I bought it at 48,000 and drove it to 150,000 with zero engine problems. The guy I sold it to absolutely refused to buy it with a diesel engine. so I converted it to a 350 rocket gas engine. I sold the 5.7 engine running, and never heard anything from the guy that bought it from me. I assume it ran fine after he installed it.

At that time I was working as a line mechanic at a buick dealership, and was privy to all the missed maintenance items that got overlooked when diesels were serviced. One main problem was the valve cover breather filters never got replaced, or even washed out at oil changes. Carbon plugged up the inadequate gas engine breathers, and then blowby had no where to go with the plugged breathers. It blew out the rear main seal from too much crankcase pressure. As well as the RTV valve cover seal, no gasket, creating massive oil leaks. letting owners finally run the engine out of oil and causing crank and bearing failures, called reliability problems.

As it has been already pointed out, an outstanding car for highway trips. Great comfort as well as great mileage, and at that time diesel fuel was still less than gasoline per gallon. Properly maintained the second gen 5.7 was a fair engine, not great, but adequate in my experience. As the article said from 77-80, they were ticking time bombs.

After installing a few 5.7s in pickup trucks GM wisely called upon Detroit Diesel to design the 6.2/6.5 engines for light duty trucks, but they too had some problems from design shortcomings, and penny pinching book keepers. IH/Navistar took on the manufacturing of the 6.5 diesels after GM dumped the design for the Duramax to keep making it for the military for the military Hummers. The IH/Navistar 6.5, is a much improved quality piece over the same GM offerings previously. The Hummer late model government surplus 6.5s are highly sought after as replacement engines for civilian GM light duty trucks. They are a much better built rendition than what GM was making.

If the post 1980 diesels were properly maintained, they ran well and got great fuel mileage. In 1985 I drove mine from Erie PA to Phoenix AZ, and best tank was 32 MPG. Hard to argue that mileage in a full size car when the same gas powered car would likely never see 20MPG. My TH 200 never gave up when I had the diesel. When I put the gas engine in, I left the TH 350 bolted to the rocket 350, so the car had a durable transmission when I sold it. Unfortunately the guy that bought it pulled onto the highway in front of another car, and totaled it about a year after he bought it. My injection pump finally went out at over 130,000 miles, and I just bought a used one for it from a friend that owned a wrecking yard. At the time a reman was in the neighborhood of $550, lots of money in the late 80s.

Just like the corvair, and the Fiero, GM finally got the cars/engines figured out and working, just before they went out of production due to the bad rap from the earliest models. In the corvairs case, Ralph Nader hastened their demise. Funny too that the IRS 61-63 Tempest used the basically same swing arm rear suspension as the corvair did, as did the VW bugs, but no mention of either of those cars having the same ill handling type of suspension quirks. There were probably other cars that used swing arm rear IRS that I'm forgetting about during that time.

GM was famous for doing field testing of new ideas, and making the customers the Guinea pigs. Denying that their designs/ideas were just fine, even though customer complaints proved otherwise. When they dropped Pontiac, I never bought another new car from GM, and never will either.


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