[transam1972]

unless you drive your Firebird around with the hood up...how would anyone know if your early Firebird was sporting later made fenders..its really a design change and numbers (more later fenders) made...the outer skins are the same...I still say its more a claim to fame thing..

[71formula455]

Originally Posted by transam1972

unless you drive your Firebird around with the hood up...how would anyone know if your early Firebird was sporting later made fenders..its really a design change and numbers (more later fenders) made...the outer skins are the same...I still say its more a claim to fame thing..

I see your point its all about the guy restoring the car. I say for the money a rust free correct year fender costs who wouldn't want the correct year part. Take a late model fender and pay a body guy money to weld on the correct front valance brackets (excluding upper inside brace) and fix some rust and your well beyond the cost of finding a correct rust free part.

Sure you can use a bunch of parts from various years and end up with a cool driver, you'll end up with a car like this. Wrong fenders are just the start for this peach. Again probably a decent driver for someone looking to have fun but I vote if your going to spend the money do it right. The sharks stomachs may explode on this one. "Show Winning" Plus check out that "NEW" carpet.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291578030131...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

[72projectbird]

Originally Posted by 71formula455

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291578030131...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I'd drive the hell outta that thing! Just not for 20k

[transam1972]

Originally Posted by 71formula455

I see your point its all about the guy restoring the car. I say for the money a rust free correct year fender costs who wouldn't want the correct year part. Take a late model fender and pay a body guy money to weld on the correct front valance brackets (excluding upper inside brace) and fix some rust and your well beyond the cost of finding a correct rust free part.

Sure you can use a bunch of parts from various years and end up with a cool driver, you'll end up with a car like this. Wrong fenders are just the start for this peach. Again probably a decent driver for someone looking to have fun but I vote if your going to spend the money do it right. The sharks stomachs may explode on this one. "Show Winning" Plus check out that "NEW" carpet.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291578030131...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

....71 Formula let me ask you this..as this debate has been around since well before I logged onto this forum and I would like to hear your opinion...when it comes to Firebird sheetmetal there are only 1 major external differences from an early car to a late car..inner fender brackets (can only be seen with the hood up) and door handle size...then you get into things like an early hinge (although fit and function are the same) they are differant

[Gator67]

Originally Posted by transam1972

unless you drive your Firebird around with the hood up...how would anyone know if your early Firebird was sporting later made fenders..its really a design change and numbers (more later fenders) made...the outer skins are the same...I still say its more a claim to fame thing..

I see your point. But to me it's one of those things that really stick out when someone's advertising or showing a car and describes it as "meticulously restored", "survivor", "original sheet metal", etc. There's a really nice '70 Formula here in town with a later fender. I noticed it the first time I saw it at a show, but didn't give it a second thought. I certainly didn't think anything less of the car. It was only when the owner later told me that it was all original that I asked him about it. Funny thing is that he had no clue that the fender was different or from a later car, and stranger yet, he had no idea how the fender got on the car. He told me he was the original owner and the only thing he ever had done was a paint job…no body work!

[transam1972]

...71Formula455 I got bumped by Gator67...back to topic...then of course inner door shell changes...words printed on the glass of a side view mirror..yet for all practical purposes a 1970 to 1981 sport mirror looks the same...the lucky few who own the remaining early Firebirds have the advantage that from shall we say (lets start at 1976 as my first T/A was that year, station wagon motor and 455 decals on a non functional shaker)...and on to 1981 share the Firebird name and the parts produced later were based on our cars original design...look at 1970 to 73 production numbers and consider replacement parts are produced for the most part in the same (perhaps 2 years extended) time frame..then look at the later production numbers..quite absurd that 1972 built 1200 T/As and 1979 built over 100,000...and that's just one year?!...should I be denied the use of a n.o.s. door skin that was/is more readily available than the other ,fewer made door skins?...oh look, your door handle is small..look at how big my correct door handle is..fortunately we are talking door handles here..and then the inner fenders issue..really these so called Trans Am experts can only jump onto the 2 most well known hot spots ...so the fender was replaced, so the door skin was replaced...if GM sheet metal was used, even better if brand new whats the big deal?...1987 a 1971 Trans Am gets a fender smacked..a new later fender gets installed..and so whats the problem in 2015?...I do not get it..you mean now you need to find a new 1971 T/A fender to fix the car right?..good luck on that one and I hope your wallets fat

[poncho-mike]

Here are some photos. I took one overall from the outside trying to hold it myself, but it was out of focus. The rest zoom in on individual areas.

I'm going to put it on craigslist locally and see if I get any bites.

[71formula455]

Originally Posted by transam1972

...71Formula455 I got bumped by Gator67...back to topic...then of course inner door shell changes...words printed on the glass of a side view mirror..yet for all practical purposes a 1970 to 1981 sport mirror looks the same...the lucky few who own the remaining early Firebirds have the advantage that from shall we say (lets start at 1976 as my first T/A was that year, station wagon motor and 455 decals on a non functional shaker)...and on to 1981 share the Firebird name and the parts produced later were based on our cars original design...look at 1970 to 73 production numbers and consider replacement parts are produced for the most part in the same (perhaps 2 years extended) time frame..then look at the later production numbers..quite absurd that 1972 built 1200 T/As and 1979 built over 100,000...and that's just one year?!...should I be denied the use of a n.o.s. door skin that was/is more readily available than the other ,fewer made door skins?...oh look, your door handle is small..look at how big my correct door handle is..fortunately we are talking door handles here..and then the inner fenders issue..really these so called Trans Am experts can only jump onto the 2 most well known hot spots ...so the fender was replaced, so the door skin was replaced...if GM sheet metal was used, even better if brand new whats the big deal?...1987 a 1971 Trans Am gets a fender smacked..a new later fender gets installed..and so whats the problem in 2015?...I do not get it..you mean now you need to find a new 1971 T/A fender to fix the car right?..good luck on that one and I hope your wallets fat

Yeah, I was not saying you should or shouldn't use any certain parts on your car. Its your car do what you want. I was agreeing with Gator that when someone does a restoration its really nice when they go the extra mile to use original parts, like popping the hood at a show, I've grown to really appreciate that part of the hobby, more so Gator was talking about selling his original rust free fenders and a fair price. Certainly not everyone has the means or access to 100% correct parts. In the end the parts you use do make a difference in the value of the car, but I agree with it will not take away from the enjoyment of cruzing down the road.

[bird72]

I sold two no rust 70 / 72 fenders last year in a package deal with other stuff. One needed minor dent bondo rework. Both were ratty paint / primer state, but no rust. Let go at $100 ea which was a steal, but as said, shipping is gigantic loser. I think value is 200 ea ratty but good and 400 or more for nice condition even old painted. I never get those prices though!

[71formula455]

Here is one thing that I've observed regarding differences in GM fenders between early ones that came on cars from the factory and GM replacements that would have been sold at dealers.

At some point it appears GM starting making "replacement" fenders for early cars that had the a raised "bump" along the inner support area which is typical for later model cars (ie 1973) for the fender to core support braces.

Here is my example, an NOS 71 fender (one year only side vent) but has the "bump" for the impact fender to core support braces. I've ran across several of these over the years and I have one just like this I acquired in some parts several years ago. Not planning on using it because it will not match the other side.

You can compare my picture to the one above from poncho-mike, even though his is not a 71 fender

[poncho-mike]

There is another big difference between replacement fenders and originals. At some point, probably in the early 80s, GM replaced the weld nut used to mount the hood hinges with a rectangular slot in the inner fender. The rectangular opening was there to allow you to install the clip nut in the fender.

['ol Pinion head]

On the '70 and '72 Bird fenders, even if they are mild rustouts, would save them. The fenders will sell, esp if in top shape. Mike, if was me, get hooked up with top restorers in the region and their body men. Will do a whole lot better selling nice original sheetmetal thriugh that avenue, than will selling at swappers. The only swapper ive been to in the east that was worth a flip on selling nice original muscle car era sheetmetal was Spring Carlisle. Good old friends of mine would say the same, and they have made the trip hauling sheet metal over two dozen times to Carlisle.

For damage free storage, just get some cardboard fender wrappers, might ask at local GM dealership body shop. If you can get them, will have to modify the slots in the bottom with a box knife. Insert the rear leg of the fender in the slot, then wrap the fender up using a few strips of packing tape for safe keeping. Currently, have about 4 dozen, mainly Pontiac fenders, from '63- second Gen T/A fenders. Later than that, I dont pull it. All have neon colored pieces of paper with large numbers on the tops of each fender wrapper. All the fenders are setting pointing nose up on the corner of back wall at the warehouse, that way, can get a halfway quick idea where one is when I need it. Each old fender wrapper has a corresponding file, where I can quickly ck if I have the fender, and if it has any issues to it. In the new building am going to be putting up a mezzanine, as am not wasting floor space for lighter weight original sheet metal storage. Even when I had fenders at home in the garage 25 years ago, used the thick cardboard fender wrappers so they could be leaned up against a wall, and not get banged into. The fender wrappers also keep roving eyes from casing what you have. Having dealt with share of absolute flakes, its unfortunate, but have to be careful in what you show and who you have as visitors.

[poncho-mike]

oPH, thanks for the advice. I've had a few hits on this board. I definitely won't throw away any 70-72 stuff. Those are my favorite year birds.

I picked up some cardboard fender and quarter panel boxes from a GM dealership a number of years back. My NOS fenders and quarters are typically stored in those wrappers.

I met a guy today who bought a 70 GTO 3.55 limited slip. The dates were right on the money for his car, he went to great lengths to make sure I didn't sell to somebody else or change my mind. There are people that need stuff, so it's just a matter of finding them. Unfortunately, I'm always busy and I'm not the most patient person.

[cpu]

Reviving an old thread. I found a 70 or 72 fender at a big well known swap meet. Not rust free, but the rust is limited.

I'm running a 73 fender. I did substantial rust repair on mine. This one for sale looks like a 70 or 72 (brace section in engine comoartnent is smooth). Hood hinge included. Doesn't look like a 70 hinge. Firebird emblem.looks post-1970. So is this a 72?

If it's confirmed to be a 72 by the emblem, is there any difference in appearance from a 70? This price looks good.

['ol Pinion head]

Carl, in your 2nd pic, there is a round hole that you can see your hand, that should not be there for a 70-72 fender.

In the 3rd pic, looks like sunlight coming through a square hole in the rail in front on the hinge. That sure looks like one of the 2 square holes that were used w the pop in clip nuts to attach the hood hinges on at least '80 & 81 Birds. There were SR fenders avail in the '80's that also had that provision.

Am not good at ID'ing the fender emblems If that fender has early front valance stampings, my bet is someone has played with it/attached them.

[unruhjonny]

1970 & 1972 non-Trans Am fenders are exactly the same.

Unless someone figures out how to make an air tight decoding of the reverse stamped date code on the inner brace, I'd say not a soul would be able to tell one from the other.

I just noticed that this is an older thread, but I wanted correct for my car, and couldn't find solid early ones, so my plan is to repair an early set - I also have the braces from my car's original fenders in my garage.

Originally Posted by 'ol Pinion head

Carl, in your 2nd pic, there is a round hole that you can see your hand, that should not be there for a 70-72 fender.

In the 3rd pic, looks like sunlight coming through a square hole in the rail in front on the hinge. That sure looks like one of the 2 square holes that were used w the pop in clip nuts to attach the hood hinges on at least '80 & 81 Birds. There were SR fenders avail in the '80's that also had that provision.

Am not good at ID'ing the fender emblems If that fender has early front valance stampings, my bet is someone has played with it/attached them.

Excellent catch (on both accounts!) - honestly, I didn't even look at the pictures before typing my initial reply - since I was replying to the query of 1970 vs 1972 fenders...

[Formulabruce]

Originally Posted by cpu

Reviving an old thread. I found a 70 or 72 fender at a big well known swap meet. Not rust free, but the rust is limited.

I'm running a 73 fender. I did substantial rust repair on mine. This one for sale looks like a 70 or 72 (brace section in engine comoartnent is smooth). Hood hinge included. Doesn't look like a 70 hinge. Firebird emblem.looks post-1970. So is this a 72?

If it's confirmed to be a 72 by the emblem, is there any difference in appearance from a 70? This price looks good.

Bottom front of fender can tell a lot because 70-73 are unique . As OPH said , and I have owned many and still have a few, there was a lot of SR fenders banged out in the 80s before they went disco which had the square hole, BUT they also had the lower front for the 79-81 lower valence too.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by cpu

Reviving an old thread. I found a 70 or 72 fender at a big well known swap meet. Not rust free, but the rust is limited.

I'm running a 73 fender. I did substantial rust repair on mine. This one for sale looks like a 70 or 72 (brace section in engine comoartnent is smooth). Hood hinge included. Doesn't look like a 70 hinge. Firebird emblem.looks post-1970. So is this a 72?

If it's confirmed to be a 72 by the emblem, is there any difference in appearance from a 70? This price looks good.

Unfortunately , you took pictures of the wrong areas

Need pictures of front lower section where the front valance would attach.
That will be specific to 70-73 ,,,, due to small brackets spotwelded in to secure the ends of the lower valance.

And pictures of the inner brace (jamb area) , from front to at least halfway back.

The square hole by the hood hinge is just about a certain indicator it is not going to be a full proper 70 or 72 fender .
Possibly someone may have added the front lower valance bracket for 70-73 , but the inner jamb structure is pretty much guaranteed to be 73 or later style.

[Ramairnacho]

My originals are straight but drivers has some rust bubbles I figure have it cut out and just same arrangement replaced from a donor. I drove 3 hours to buy this one.its rust free and possible donor. What year is it? Also got 1 71 ta fender would be nice to get 1 more.

[unruhjonny]

i cannot tell from any of those pictures.

The very first thing to look at is the front lower edge - look for the presence (or absence) of the valance attaching bracket - it’s at the bottom, attached to the forward edge - and is just behind the forward edge.
Second is the top braces - look for the presence (or absence) of the lip with additional holes for the 1973+ fender to rad support braces - there should be two holes for attaching the wheel well - no more.

If the fender match that criteria, the rest will fall in place.

I cannot recall of any other years used a front lower bracket - if my memory serves me, each variation used holes drilled in a different spot on the forward edge of the fender for attaching front end parts.

I will see if I can find some pictures to help out…