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#1
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Oil pump dyno ?
What would be needed to build one. Would you need something more than a pressure gauge for instrumentation ?
I bet you would. What ? Thinking about making one. Have machine shop access and am a fabricator. Something simple, think it might not be that hard to do. Thoughts ? |
#2
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Pressure gauge for sure.
If you want to "dyno" how much energy is used to turn the pump ... then it would get complicated. An electric drive motor of known efficiency that you could monitor how many watts it uses ... then convert to HP etc. Or do you just want to compare pressure and flow? Then a pressure gauge, fixed orifice to build pressure, flow meter of some sort. And of course something to drive the pump. Might take a pretty beefy electric motor ... my guess is an oil pump at full tilt probably consumes a couple hp. For head to head comparisons it would be pretty simple ... how much pressure and flow at a given rpm. You could dispense with the flow sensor and time to fill a bucket. To determine how efficiently one pump works compared to another you'd need to know the input power. Fairly "simple" depending on a person's breadth of knowledge. A microprocessor like an Arduino, or micro-computer like a Raspberry Pi could easily monitor and record the data via pressure, rpm and flow sensors (flow sensor would get a bit complex in this application).
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I'm World's Best Hyperbolist !! Last edited by dataway; 12-12-2023 at 02:31 AM. |
#3
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Just assemble your motor put an amp clamp on your 1/2 hp drill (electric ) an rpm sensor would be helpful and a psi guage I bet you would find whatever you are looking for
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1969 carousel red firebird 455, richmond 5 speed 1964 540 gto 1971 lemans sport convertible 1972 Maverick under slow construction |
#4
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Not sure a drill would spin it fast enough to replicate a engine. Any drill will get you spinning fast enough to get pressure. I already have a simple jig I can put the pump in a bucket of oil and spin it with a drill and see how much pressure I get.
I am interested in when cavitation starts with different pickups. Oversized vs stock vs small 5/8 pickups. And maybe making a vessel where I can put the pump/reservoir under some vacuum and see how that effects cavitation. Maybe do it with a Shop Vac on the reservoir ? I have a 2 hp Harbor Freight electric motor. Start with something like that. Have to be able to make it variable speed . With just enough electronics to make some graphs on a screen. The wiz kid electronic genius(never seen anyone like him) can help me out with some of it. And he is a machinist too. It will take time, in no hurry and have lots of other stuff that needs done. I just think it would be a very interesting little project to tinker on and if I can do it without spending a lot of money all the better. |
#5
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Can I ask why? Do you have bearing issues? I know you put some time into a design you like only one way to find out if it works in real world application if you had no issues before and no issues now what have you really accomplished?
And verified or achieved a personal goal is perfectly acceptable fwiw
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1969 carousel red firebird 455, richmond 5 speed 1964 540 gto 1971 lemans sport convertible 1972 Maverick under slow construction |
The Following User Says Thank You to mysticmissle For This Useful Post: | ||
#6
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Remember oil pump is turning half crank speed
most electric motors are what around 3450 rpm actual rpms will vary between manufacture and loads i have a reversible pneumatic drill thats rated at 600RPMs that i prime with, can be a wrist buster iff your not prepared
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A man who falls for everything stands for nothing. |
#7
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We had our oil pump run on Bill Miller's pump dyno. It had graphing capability, the ability to measure pump RPM, flow in GPM, and pressure of course. It also had software to calculate percentage of cavitation at a given RPM. Turns out he was rather impressed with the Peterson R3 belt drive we were using. It moved 43 GPM at the speed we were running it at. Very little cavitation. You might want to give him a call and discuss your needs. Seems like there used to be a short video clip of that pump dyno in use on their web site. Not sure if it is still up.
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The Following User Says Thank You to mgarblik For This Useful Post: | ||
#8
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Bill and I had long Conversations over his pump dyno, we ended up arguing over which cigar is best
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The Following User Says Thank You to Gach For This Useful Post: | ||
#9
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Quote:
What I am interested. is at what point will a Pontiac oil pump start cavitation. And how the different types of pickup effect it. How the inlet size effects it. I enlarged my current one a bunch. I would like to see how it stacks up to a regular aftermarket pickup. And how does a V pump effect where a Pontiac pump goes into cavitation. If I can find that little blip in oil pressure in a Canton pickup like Luhn found. I just think it would be interesting to do it. Take my time and mess around with it here and there. Might have to wait until I retire. My new shop will have some cool stuff in it to keep me busy. I put a lot of effort into my oiling system and I do not want to find out how good it is thrashing on my engine. Not really going to beat on it. Well, maybe a little. |
#10
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Quote:
He told me enlarging my pickup would raise the RPM where cavitation starts. And a V pump lowers where it starts. But he is into stuff, Hemis with giant pumps and oil lines with gear sets larger than we can get. I am only interested in a wet sump Pontiac. |
#11
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A friend of mine who is no longer with us once attended a seminar by Smoky.
In the discussion on oil systems Smoky stated that bearings showing signs of distress. ( not from excess oil temp or detonation ) according to what he saw could be from pump cavitation or air mixed with the oil. He found at that point in time that the best way to get the air out was to first not let it get mixed in right off the bat. keeping the inside of the motor under vacuum, and he thought that doing such helped the cavitation issue some also.
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Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs! And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs! 1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set. Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks. 1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes. Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph. Education is what your left with once you forget things! |
#12
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Quote:
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The Following User Says Thank You to mgarblik For This Useful Post: | ||
#13
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'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 ) Old information here: http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/ Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine) 5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE |
The Following User Says Thank You to Steve C. For This Useful Post: | ||
#14
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Humm, oil pump dyno sounds like a good idea, hell I’d be willing to invest in a project like that if the guy was qualified.
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#15
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Quote:
"qualified" When is the last time you built a industrial hydraulic tank from scratch, mounted and aligned the pump with motor, installed filter system and return line ? You know, make the whole freaking thing with your own hands ? Me, about 8 months ago, its kinda what I do for a living. Its very close to what this project is. |
#16
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You would need to approximate the downstream restriction to get the flow rate correct. Also, you want to accurately model the flow split between the block and the pump bypass. Otherwise, running the pump could generate misleading results.
Here's a thought: build a motor mockup using a junk block and crank but with correct bearing clearances, lifters, restrictors, block passages, connecting rods, etc. Make a special shaft and adapter(s) to mount a C-face electric motor, driving into the distributor pad. You would need a variable speed motor that can run up to 4000 rpm (equivalent to 8000 rpm engine speed). Then you could do accurate comparisons of pumps, pickups and pans in their installed condition. FWIW, Eric
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"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" noted philosopher Mike Tyson Life begins at the end of your comfort zone. “The mind, once stretched by a new idea, never returns to its original dimensions.” |
The Following User Says Thank You to Elarson For This Useful Post: | ||
#17
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I am most interested in what is going on in the low pressure-inlet size. I found 3450 RPM 120V 2HP motors on E Bay for 120$ https://www.ebay.com/itm/19590833765...ef3dd383266ed5 Need something to make it variable speed. Attach it to one of these. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 12$. 5/8 shaft on electric motor. making the coupler should not be too hard. |
#18
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I am going to be replicating the simple rig my dad and I made back decades ago for checking the pump's max psi rating. It involved a neat little fixture that the pump mounted to, a 1/2" needle valve on the outlet side, and a pressure gauge mounted to the fixture. - and the whole thing fit neatly into a five gallon bucket which made the handling of the liquid VERY easy.
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