[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by Gach

So in other words other words, they went out with high buckle shoes..LOL God those things where noisy.

.....and Go-go boots. But nothing wrong with the boots.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by grivera

The Cloyes wide link plate sets are nice until you need to move it and can't find the right degree cam key. Luckily the one in my Firebird degreed spot on at the recommended 107.

If you want to use the non-adjustable sets, there are Mercedes keys that will work for you. They are available in 1,2,3,4 degree offsets. I posted part numbers in a couple other threads. Mr. Gasket still has some 1 and 2 degree keys available but double the cost of the Mercedes ones. The best were the Mopar direct Connection pack of 5 keys. They are long gone.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by Gach

Exactly and if you don’t know how to degree a cam in the first place. The light will never come on.

Always looking for a dig Gach. In fact you made 2 in one post.
All 3 chains on zero de-greed the same.
The only issue with this whole thing is Rollermasters instructions, they are wrong.
If your light was on you would have picked up that Cloyes does not offer a short Z chain for Pontiacs.
Most know its the best roller chain.

Gear drives, Pauls post about harmonics was useful. But the best gear drive, Milodon are not noisy at all.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

If you want to use the non-adjustable sets, there are Mercedes keys that will work for you. They are available in 1,2,3,4 degree offsets. I posted part numbers in a couple other threads. Mr. Gasket still has some 1 and 2 degree keys available but double the cost of the Mercedes ones. The best were the Mopar direct Connection pack of 5 keys. They are long gone.

I have a 4 deg and 2 deg Mercedes key and a full Direct Connection key pack from years ago.

[Gach]

This was text to me

Always looking for a dig Gach. In fact you made 2 in one post.

Obviously the one who made this statement I have blocked. If you take things I say in humor personally. Then BLOCK ME !!

[Gach]

I still have 2 of Mr Gasket off sets. I used to use long before the 9 key timing sets cam out.

[firechicken]

Harmonics...lol
This is the street section BTW.

[Cliff R]

"The best were the Mopar direct Connection pack of 5 keys. They are long gone."

.....and I buy (or used to until I quit building engines here a few years ago) every single one that I find on Ebay and have for many years. Periodically I do a search, from time to time they show up so I grab them. Got zinged pretty hard on the last one, $60. I still have it less one key and some misc keys left over from other sets I've bought and used keys from over the years.......

[Cliff R]

"Once again, I come back to the good, better, best scenario. There are roller timing sets I wouldn't.....etc, etc."

Excellent info on the top shelf double roller stuff. On the flip side of your post I have used wide Morse chain sets for over 45 years now without a single issues anyplace, at any power level. In SBC builds (thru 1986 blocks) I use the Melling 3-489 set which is 3/4" wide like the Pontiac V-8 set, The 3-499S set is 5/8" wide but I'd still use one of those before any roller type timing set. I actually prefer the early Cloyes with steel gears but they are difficult to obtain, the Melling is readily available and also marketed by SA Gear.

Over all the years of building engines for my cars I've had ONE timing chain failure and that was in 2004 with a Rollmaster. It was also the only "double roller" timing set I've ever used on my own engine builds. My mentor was very specific and detailed about that part of the engine build so I followed his advice and SOB the very first time I went another direction it failed on me........FWIW......

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by firechicken

Harmonics...lol
This is the street section BTW.

Agreed..... Absolutely no use for a gear drive unless someone wants to listen to a constant whining noise.

[Gach]

This is funny if I can inject a little humor. I hear this winding noise, I look up and see this Chevelle going by, I’m looking for the Blower, I’m like what hell was that. No blower. Later I’m at local parts store this kid standing there and the Chevelle goes by, kid says hey that’s Larry’s did you hear he got a gear drive, I’ll bet he’s going to make some power with that baby now. I just laughed

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

Agreed..... Absolutely no use for a gear drive unless someone wants to listen to a constant whining noise.

This country is full of whining noise

[Dragncar]

I ended up using the Elgin/Morse chain set. It was the tightest set I had even though its not a short chain and my block has splayed caps.
The Rollemaster had 3/8" deflection, Cloyes had 1/4" deflection and the Elgin/Morse slightly less.
I will end up using both the rollers someday. When I am fixed income geezer bracket racer...........
Or I will buy more of those 35$ 3/4" wide link deals !
I do have a couple .008 short double roller chains only. USA made for 10 bucks on clearance a member PMed me about. Never mocked them up though.

Not sure what all this noise talk is about using Milodon gear drives. I could not hear one in a Firebird at the track once and firechicken says his is silent.

BTW, check out the burs on the ends of the key-ways on the Cloyes crank gear.
Needs filed, deburd. The Rollermaster crank gear was clean. Even Cloyes needs tuned up.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by slowbird

This country is full of whining noise

Hence the winky face

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Not sure what all this noise talk is about using Milodon gear drives. I could not hear one in a Firebird at the track once and firechicken says his is silent.

.

Noise is the only reason to use a gear drive. Any other reason, other than degrading performance can be accomplished in a better way....even the noise can be made a better way. There is not a good logical reason to use a gear drive other than personal preference. The Milodon set up by far is the best quality deal out there. It also costs a lot more than a timing chain set and takes a considerable amount of time and some machining to set up.....all to go backwards in technology sixty years. But if that's what gets your rocks off by all means do it. As of now it's still a free Country.

[grivera]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

If you want to use the non-adjustable sets, there are Mercedes keys that will work for you. They are available in 1,2,3,4 degree offsets. I posted part numbers in a couple other threads. Mr. Gasket still has some 1 and 2 degree keys available but double the cost of the Mercedes ones. The best were the Mopar direct Connection pack of 5 keys. They are long gone.

Thanks - found the post: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...85&postcount=7

[track73]

I used a Cam Correct devise with a Rollermaster chain on a couple late model Chevy circle track engines. I thought it as a real good part to correct timing chain slop. Those engines were rockets. Too bad the driver wasn't up to it.

[grivera]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Y
We all know how its done stock, the right edge of the keyway lines up with the center line of the cam gear, marks on both gears and the center line of the crank.

But the drawing on Rollermasters instructions show a gap between the center line and the right edge of the key way. At least as wide as the key way is itself.
It all works if you line it up just like my old Motors manual shows..

So when you line up the RM cam gear/crank gear dot-to-dot the cam keyway is in the correct location?

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

Noise is the only reason to use a gear drive. Any other reason, other than degrading performance can be accomplished in a better way....even the noise can be made a better way. There is not a good logical reason to use a gear drive other than personal preference. The Milodon set up by far is the best quality deal out there. It also costs a lot more than a timing chain set and takes a considerable amount of time and some machining to set up.....all to go backwards in technology sixty years. But if that's what gets your rocks off by all means do it. As of now it's still a free Country.

Has anyone did any back to back testing ? Spintron testing ?
I know the Milodon is expensive and a pain to set up.
But, if you can make them quiet and they last far longer, longevity is something worthwhile.
I have never messed with one but I would assume you can adjust the lash for wear.
If you say harmonics is a thing against a gear drive I believe you. I would think at some point a high end engine builder has spun one up on a Spintron. What did they find ?
It used to be said they cost you 1-2 horsepower. But if it lasts the lifetime of the engine that is not bad.
Now a engine builder, I understand why they do not like them. very expensive and I bet customers don,t like paying the actual time it takes to set one up.
Vs just putting a good chain on, degree it and be done with it. Gear drives are a losing deal for a engine builder.
Getting one to make noise is just dumb. Never liked that noise. I remember the knuckleheads with their 300 HP small blocks in their 75 Camaros making all that racket who thought they were cool.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by grivera

So when you line up the RM cam gear/crank gear dot-to-dot the cam keyway is in the correct location?

Its in the correct location as in a Motors Manual (stock) But dot to dot you can not replicate the drawing in their instructions. Their drawing shows the key way too far to the left.